Thread: The P38 Rear Bar Tyre Carrier SNAFU

Originally Posted by DT-P38

I would love to have one like the RobsRod DIY but with the wheel centered and number plate holder located in the centre of the wheel.

Rijidij, assuming no IP issues with RobsRod would you arrange production of a small batch?

What sort of pricing?

Originally Posted by Robsrod 58

If Murray wants to to do a run, go for it!

But if you centre the wheel you will massively increase the moment on the bracket and will definitely require a lot of extra work under the bumper to prevent flexing, as it is you can't do this without a Haymen Reece type tow bar, which spreads the load and stiffens the chassis rails .
As it is mine is secured by 5 bolts and there is minor flexing if I hang off the carrier....Just something to be aware of.

I pondered the idea of N plate on wheel but getting it on there with these type of lug nuts makes it awkward as the wheel is heavy enough without trying to hang another bracket as well!

Rob

A common problem I face in situations like this is, I would love to do a batch of P38 carriers, but I struggle to find the time for extra projects over what I've already got on the go.
Having said that, one way this could work is, if someone like Rob is willing to share his design and it is suitable for converting the parts/drawings to laser cut drawing format, then most of the time consuming work is done. R&D and design is what takes the time with new products, not the cutting, fabrication etc.
Even if just the chassis mounting bracket was produced, this is the most difficult part of building a DIY carrier, then the main arm is fairly straight forward. I already produce wheel mounts, latches etc See here so as long as the chassis mount was made, it probably wouldn't be too hard to sort out all that's needed for a DIY kit for the whole carrier.
Rob, did you happen to draw the dimensions of how you made your chassis mount from the RHS ? Also, what did you do under the bumper to mount the latch plate too ?

I'm only suggesting a DIY carrier beacuse I don't want to say "yeah, I can make these" and then not be able to deliver.

I agree with Rob regarding building a longer arm to center the wheel to the car..........be aware of flexing etc. I think the wheel could be centered, but you would have to make sure the weight of the wheel and carrier were very well supported when in the closed position. It might require a strong bracket fixed to the tow bar for example, to share the load of the wheel and carrier between the tow bar and chassis mounting bracket.
The down side to centering the wheel is, you will need to raise the wheel to allow clearance for tow hitches etc, which in turn restricts your rear vision.

Regarding mounting a number plate in the middle of the wheel, the same type of mount as I use on my Defender carriers could be made with the appropriate stud pattern. These are pretty light weight and have provision for a light. See pic below


Just my thoughts anyway............keep the ideas coming.

Cheers, Murray

Wow, I'm feeling the pressure!!!

The way the bracket could be done would be based on my original design, posted previously, made up of 8 separate laser cut pieces of 6mm plate and welded together. That would achieve the same result especially with your expert welding Murray! Also I think each bracket would need to be drilled to suit each situation as the tolerances are quite tight behind the bar to achieve maximum bracket size and strength. I'll see what I can do about getting some measurements in the next couple of weeks as at the moment I'm quite busy, please be patient.

The latch plate nuts, that was another issue, after chewing the fat I decided to take a punt and mig the nuts directly to the bumper. I thought about reinforcing plates behind but that would distort the bumper. there are also spacers between the latch plate and the steel part of the bumper so as to not place pressure on the plastic bumper covering I feel the load is quite well spread, time will tell. As I said before I can put all my weight on the carrier with only a minute amount of movement and I'm not convinced its the bracket flexing.

Murray, as for your N plate bracket, because I run standard alloys they are domed in the centre therefore your bracket would not sit flat against the wheel. The only way it would work would be to weld the approx 25mm x 25mm tube directly to the wheel mount and then slide the wheel on and the holder over that, if you get my gist...

Rob

Originally Posted by Robsrod 58

Wow, I'm feeling the pressure!!!

The way it could be done would be based on my original design, posted previously, made up of 8 separate laser cut pieces of 6mm plate and welded together. That would achieve the same result especially with your expert welding Murray! I'll see what I can do about getting some measurements in the next couple of weeks as at the moment I'm quite busy, please be patient.

Murray, as for your N plate bracket, because I run standard alloys they are domed in the centre therefore your bracket would not sit flat against the wheel. The only way it would work would be to weld the approx 25mm x 25mm tube directly to the wheel mount and then slide the wheel on and the holder over that, if you get my gist...

Rob

Sorry Rob, I don't mean to put pressure on you or make you feel obligated to supply measurements. I just suggested you as an example of someone who has been through the process. It would be great if anyone could supply measurements of a chassis bracket that they've made up.

Regarding the number plate mount, the previous picture might not explain well enough, but the part of the bracket with the three holes in it goes on behind the wheel and sticks through the center hole of the wheel, then it's just one small bolt to attach the outer part that the No. plate attaches to.
Exactly the same bracket is fitted to this 90, I hope that makes it clearer how it fits on. If we were to make these to fit the Rangie I would need to check the dimensions of the wheels to make sure they fitted as neat and close to the wheel as possible. They need to stick out just enough to be able to get to the small bolt to remove it.

Cheers, Murray

No Murray, I'm only kidding, but you are right about R&D, it's the most time consuming and frustrating part of building any thing. I must admit though I do enjoy the challenge and satisfaction of saying " I did that" while sucking on a beer, then another, then another!!!

If I had of known of that N bracket I would gone that way for sure. Drats!

Rob

My solution to fixing the latch plate was to weld 4 x long high tensile bolts to the tow bar cross member. I added a plate behind the bumper to stiffen it up. 4 clearance were drilled through the bumper so no weight was on it. The latch plate was then fixed between 2 nuts (dome on outside) x 4 sets. Seems to work ok.

Originally Posted by davidsonsm

My solution to fixing the latch plate was to weld 4 x long high tensile bolts to the tow bar cross member. I added a plate behind the bumper to stiffen it up. 4 clearance were drilled through the bumper so no weight was on it. The latch plate was then fixed between 2 nuts (dome on outside) x 4 sets. Seems to work ok.

Wow, that would take some time to get the right position to drill the bumper or very big clearance holes!!

I'm banking on having little weight on the latch assy therefor avoiding extra engineering.

Rob

Originally Posted by Robsrod 58

Wow, I'm feeling the pressure!!!
Rob

Rob,

I for one am very thankful for all your effort and am very happy to wait until you have a little time to get together with Murray

Steve

Old school. Over engineer it. That's got to be the solution. When you're clearly under qualified - as I am. Give it a go guys. As with 'll things P38 - there's rarely an out of the box solution. Isn't that why we love them? And hate them.