Thread: far out , i thought i would service the aircon today

Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

Hychill -30 is a mix of propane and butane. Pretty much the same as your household LPG blend that you might use on a BBQ or for your hot water heater.

and if in an accident and the lines rupture...

There could be a boom I suppose.
Big Bada-boom.

The reality is that refrigerants are tending towards low GWP (Global warming potential) 'natural' refrigerants like propane, CO2, and ammonia. The CFC's, HCFC's, and some of the other 'nasty' ones are being phased out slowly but steadily.
The issue with CO2 is that it needs higher pressures. Ammonia is a toxic gas.

With this change in refrigerants, the ARC is trying to protect a trade which would be over-run with 'home gamers' if it is deregulated- not to mention the copious amounts of refrigerant that will not be suitably evacuated and disposed of if it becomes the DIY work of the everyday man. Not to mention the associated environmental impact. While the home gamers can oftentimes do the job and do it well, the specialised tools to recover the refrigerant is often not available to them.

Hychill is, from what I understand more volatile from a LEL (Lower explosive limit) than some of the other low GWP alternatives. 1250g of propane or equivalent will create a nice bang or a solid fireball, and not one you'd want confined in an engine compartment with all the other assicoated flammable stuff, melty wires, etc. But lesser of two evils I guess, from an environmental perspective.

Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

But lesser of two evils I guess, from an environmental perspective.

tell that to firefighters who cut people out of cars or fight cars fires.

I understand. I sell R134a most days of the week. Fact of the matter is that the legislation is moving to low GWP, and oftentimes flammable refrigerants, however the car manufacturers are resisting as long as they can given the current phase out periods. CO2 or ammonia in LV HVAC systems is just too expensive (IIRC there are only a few marques which use CO2, AKA R744). Economically, r134a can be had for well under $20 bucks a kilo, R1234YF is around $300. Hychill is a faction of that, hence why it's so attractive.
So as you can see, we're stuck in a purgatory between being environmentally responsible, safe(er), and cost effective. Bigger factors at play than any of us can work against.

The take home message is to get your AC work done by a pro. Keep a tradie in a job, don't break the law by DIY, and ensure it's done correctly and safely so you don't have a vehicle fire, refrigerant leak, or worse.

One of our former members, ladas, might disagree on how dangerous these gases are.

Originally Posted by ladas

An interesting thing I saw when I was doing a training course in Sri Lanka once.

I work with hydrocarbon refrigerants - basically highly refined propane and isobutane (No its not BBQ gas)

Typically with HC as a refrigerant approximately 200 - 300 grams is used, and during this training class I have one protagonist who was stiring up the class - saying it was dangerous, he was a real pain.

When we broke for lunch - he was leaving for the day, and it was interesting to see

A BBQ /LPG gas bottle - laying on its side - held down with one of those rubbery straps with hooks on the end in the back of his Datsun station waggon, and a flexible hose running through the firewall.

Yep he was running his car on LPG from this BBQ cylinder (maybe 9 - 10 kgs) sat inside the car.............

.....................and he was having a pop at HC refrigerants @ 200 grams.

I had to laugh .............

Originally Posted by PeterH

Yep, I had mine regased last weekend after replacing a leaky hose.
The air con guy commented that it took a lot of gas, much more than most cars.
He said that is as much as a truck air conditioner takes!
Like yours, mine is so cold now, I should be set for summer.
I also recently replaced a few bulbs including some of the HEVAC ones, I was lucky to find some of the correct ones at my local autobarn. They had a special case of unusual bulbs and just happened to match what I needed. It's a good idea to take in the bulbs you want to replace so you can be certain you are getting the correct bulbs.
Cheers, Pete.

Originally Posted by scarry

So what do they do when the system doesn't have a glass?

Most don't anymore,cost saving.

Overcharging a system is not good

Weird,in the US they are very strict with environmental issue in some areas,but very very lax in others.

You dont need a sight glass ,
If you look at the guages when running your Low pressure guage will show ambiant temp of the gass in the system ,, you want this to be sitting between -3 and +3 with the )Red) High pressure guage it would be ideal at about 40 pis running ,
Thats with 134a gas , R21 runs higher pressuer and R12 ( we cant use anymore ) runs lower temps and pressures ,,
next time i will take a few pictures ,
Bob

Originally Posted by p38arover

One of our former members, ladas, might disagree on how dangerous these gases are.

I was in darwin i was driving a old 80 series landcriuser any how this car was getting scrapped in a week and the aircon gas ran out due to a leak , i repaired the leak and charged the system with LPG , Yes LPG
It was the coldest air i ever had !

when we scrapped it we vac out the system just in case ,,,,

Originally Posted by Toxic_Avenger

I understand. I sell R134a most days of the week. Fact of the matter is that the legislation is moving to low GWP, and oftentimes flammable refrigerants, however the car manufacturers are resisting as long as they can given the current phase out periods. CO2 or ammonia in LV HVAC systems is just too expensive (IIRC there are only a few marques which use CO2, AKA R744). Economically, r134a can be had for well under $20 bucks a kilo, R1234YF is around $300. Hychill is a faction of that, hence why it's so attractive.
So as you can see, we're stuck in a purgatory between being environmentally responsible, safe(er), and cost effective. Bigger factors at play than any of us can work against.

The take home message is to get your AC work done by a pro. Keep a tradie in a job, don't break the law by DIY, and ensure it's done correctly and safely so you don't have a vehicle fire, refrigerant leak, or worse.

Get it done right ,,

What bakes my can of beans is the government saying how we cant have coal fired power stations due to climate change ,
Then sells the coal to china Im sure last time i looked we were on the same planet ?

if you burn the coal here or in china / india wont it make the same polution ?

i say keep it here and give the pensioners FREE electric ,,,,

Polititions think we are stupid ,,
bloody dual citizens

we have so much OIL in bass straight , so much coal in QLD and WA , why are we not richer than the saudis ?

YEP POLITITIONS !

come on Ron I want to hear your 2 bob`s worth on this mate ,,,,,