Thread: Plugger and The Camel

Hi Gang,

Well its been a week since we last update so I guess we are about due. The parts that I ordered for the steering relay still haven't shown up - upon chasing the vendor it seems that some of the parts are out of stock (hmmm, wish they told me that before I made the order!! ) so I have cancelled the order and gone with another vendor from the UK!! All good, just another weeks delay.

In the meantime and for the past few weeks my thoughts have turned to the brakes. While Camel will be getting all new everything when it comes to brakes, there were a few things that I didn't like.
1. The brakes were unboosted - this means more pedal effort for the same braking force! While not really a problem with experienced drivers like most of us, for the Plugger it could be courting disaster being his first car....
2. Single circuit brakes - one leak or nick from anywhere could render the brakes useless if he has any kind of serious fluid loss

The answer - Series III dual circuit master cylinder and booster. So, on the hunt I went and it didn't take me long to track one down at British Off-Road. While the dismantler didnt have one per se, one of the employees did and for $80 it as mine - thanks again Paxton!! A quick trip up and back and this is what I came home with - it even has the brake light activation switch:


I started the dismantling of it on Saturday - it was too hot to do anything else. After disconnecting the pedal assembly and the mounting bracket from the booster and master cylinder, I cleaned the pedal assembly up with a wire wheel and then gave it a good coat of primer. It was in great condition with no rust or corrosion of any kind and all parts moving freely. Even the brake light activation switch worked:

I kinda stopped there,as I think I will send it off to be powder coated along with the clutch and accelerator pedals.

I stripped down the master cylinder and it was immaculate inside - it still contained brake fluid which has stopped all the seals and pistons from drying out and becoming brittle. No nicks, tears or splits, no bulging of seals or pistons - so I put it straight back together again and gave it a coat of paint. The booster assembly likewise was in top condition as well. While these units are un-serviceable, it still held air without any leaks and there was no corrosion around the crimp line etc. The only part needed replacing was the rubber boot which surrounds the input shaft from the brake lever. I went down to the local brake store and got a replacement for next to nothing! A coat of paint and the whole lot looks good enough to put in the car. Still deciding whether to go gloss black with the booster body.....


That's about if for this weekend. Its been really hot here so I was concentrating on doing things that were do-able inside or undercover. Next week we shall start on the rear suspension and get that out of the way prior to tackling the chassis. Hopefully by then the steering relay will have shown up and we can finish reassembly of that as well. Stay tuned!!

Cheer and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

Hi Tricky, you will have to cut the firewall out to fit the brake pedal assy as the pedal is in a different position compared with the original one. Its a really simple job which im sure you will easily accomplish. You will also need to make up gaskets for both pedal assys where they are bolted to the firewall. Boosted brakes are a good upgrade on a series. Did you get the proportioning valve with the pedal assy if you are going the split system? I would also be replacing the rubber hoses with braided lines. You will get better pedal feel. Have fun.

Cheers Rod

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You might have to also modify the top panel on the right hand guard as well to suit the brake booster/master cyl cheers Dennis

I was thinking of dual circuit at some point for the 109.

Could I just add the booster and the dual circuit cylinder and retain the existing brake pedal or is there something different about the dual set up that stops me from doing that?
cheers,
D

The booster type pedal is completly different as it pushes forwards and the standard pedal pushes backwards like the clutch pedal.

Cheers Rod

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While dual circuit brakes offer a safety advantage in theory, if properly maintained the risk of single circuit brakes is very small. I have driven Landrovers and other cars with single circuit brakes for nearly sixty years, and have never experienced a brake failure. The closest to a brake failure I have ever had was with the dual circuit brakes in my 110, when it lost all boost due to a cracked booster housing - and discs with no boost are pretty feeble. (This statement is apart from wet drum brakes after wading!)

But I fitted a remote booster to my first 2a, and agree this is a valuable addition, especially on the swb (10" brakes).

And you need to check whether the S3 master cylinder yoou have is for an 88 or a 109 - they are different.

John

Thanks everyone for the replies...

Rod - do you have any details on what the alterations to the firewall are?? You said simple, so I take it the alterations are only minor....pics?? No, ordered replacement rubber lines as I did not even think of braided. The prop valve - did not think this was necessary as all four points are identical - i.e. 10" drums. If the car had discs on the front or different sized drums then yes, a prop valve would be needed. With all slaves the same size, then all pressures should be identical, yes?? Also checked the Haynes manual - no mention of a prop valve either in the text or the diagrams even though they show the dual circuit system - that manual is so deficient!!

Dennis - OK, copy that! I think it might just be a case of 'suck it n see'... Do you have any details?

John - happened to my brothers Mini, cracked brake line due to corrosion - two pumps - nothing!! Dual circuit would have left at least one circuit still in service. I know, mighty rare, but I only have one son!! Its the 88" version I believe.

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

Ok Tricky, here we go.

1. Pics of the gaskets i made from very thin rubber available from clark rubber.

2. The cut out in the firewall needed to fit the booster type pedal. U can see in the pic the clutch pedal cut out should be the same as the brake pedal cut out on ur firewall.
U need to cut the top part away, as in the pic, to fit the booster type pedal.

3. U will also need to fit a series three type guard, (sorry no pic), to suit boosted brakes, (u already have s3 type guards). Make sure u get the top guard mount bracket, where it bolts to the firewall, coz it's different, and the mud shield and steering box cover as well, coz they are all different.
This will save u cutting up the existing guard.
The bonnet will cover the cutout in the guard.

4. MOST IMPORTANT...
Attatched is also a pic of the prop valve which IS, and MUST, be fitted, to standard series 3 with boosted brakes, (6 cyl models), and a dual circuit system. This is what makes the dual circuit system work, when one circuit fails.
The prop valve effectively blocks the circuit that has failed, to allow for some pedal feel right near the bottom of the pedal travel, to the un affected circuit, (so u can still stop). It also has a switch on it, so u know when there is a failure. The switch activates a light on the dash, which u will have to wire up, very easy. I think thats about it for now.

5. If you fit an aftermarket booster to ur standard system it's easier, but a dual circuit system is so much safer.

Hope this helps Tricky.

Cheers Rod


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