Thread: Rope for extension straps.

Originally Posted by alien

OK brains trust, would this be acceptable?
I did a recovery on the weekend winching from below where putting a rope through snatch blocks would have been ideal.
I had to run an extension strap through a shackle to do the job.
(Actually we used 2 trees and 50mtrs of other straps to do the job).
The 20mt extension strap is now a throw away item and needs to be replaced.
This has me thinking if I could use the existing supplied synthetic rope from the TJM 12'000lb winch as an extension rope?
I'm happy to put a new rope on the winch and I could the also use the spare sheath over the top for weather/sun protection.


So what are your thoughts?
What's the best way to finish off the standing end if I do this?
When being halved is a shackle acceptable or better to use a snatch block for a bigger arc?




Let the discussion begin

The smaller the arc that the rope has to travel around the more damage is done, most snatch blocks are too small IMO, but are much better than around a tree or shackle, Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by Tank

The smaller the arc that the rope has to travel around the more damage is done, most snatch blocks are too small IMO, but are much better than around a tree or shackle, Regards Frank.

Something important I failed to mention in the scenario by Alien (OP) is the amount of friction involved, a well designed snatch block with a greasable shaft for the pulley wheel will add about 5% to the load and that is repeated for every pulley wheel in a setup.
The friction generated by running through a shackle could be equal to anywhere from 1/2 to double the original load.
If Nylon (Dyneema) rope were used it would probably destroy the rope with friction generated heat,
Sometimes we don't have a choice and have to do things outside the box, but it would be advisable to inspect any equipment used for damage and discard if need be, Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by Tank

Something important I failed to mention in the scenario by Alien (OP) is the amount of friction involved, a well designed snatch block with a greasable shaft for the pulley wheel will add about 5% to the load and that is repeated for every pulley wheel in a setup.
The friction generated by running through a shackle could be equal to anywhere from 1/2 to double the original load.
If Nylon (Dyneema) rope were used it would probably destroy the rope with friction generated heat,
Sometimes we don't have a choice and have to do things outside the box, but it would be advisable to inspect any equipment used for damage and discard if need be, Regards Frank.

Running the strap I had through shackles is why it is now in the bin.
As you said sometimes we have to do things outside of the box, as long as it's safe.

The scenario you have described would be well within the capabilities of your existing winch rope, if you wished to use this as an extension and replace the winch rope with new synthetic rope.

If you need to 'cut off' the existing crimp on the end, which usually has a fitting for a bolt to pass through in order to secure the end of the rope to the drum, you can cut this off. You can then splice the rope in a normal splice, using part of your existing 'protective sheath' in the eye area of the splice.

This would then leave you with sufficient length to pass through a pulley block if required, either for a change of direction or other purposes.

Using a shackle as a roller, will destroy rope or straps as this is clearly not what the item was designed for. However, as in most recovery type situations, we need to improvise and whilst this clearly does not mean we have to cut corners on safety, we can improvise and as you have already mentioned, if we extract the vehicle and all is safe we can then discard any item which is deemed no longer 'fit for purpose' and if we need to replace these items then replacing them with something better or more appropriate may be the go.

Recoveries are rarely ever 'textbook' and so being able to recognise and limit any potential danger, whilst still being in a position to extract a vehicle is in essence what we are trying to achieve.

I undertake Recovery / Winch courses and learning to understand loads and the danger involved is as important as learning to use your equipment and adapting to various scenarios. The emergency services are always training and during the course of this training items of equipment will be removed from service, in order to make them think outside the box as items can malfunction or fail at any time. This is something which is sadly lacking in a lot of training courses.

In a perfect world we would never get stuck and if we did we would have all the right equipment all the time. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world.

Happy to discuss this further

Regards

XDrive

Probably worth a mention.
I'm pretty happy with myself as I just made up a synthetic "d" shackle from part of a broken length of synthetic rope I found in the bottom of a boghole up at Narbethong. Got a hell of a fright as it felt like a snake !!
I see they can be bought but there are tutorials on YouTube, so I had a go. Hopefully this will be better than sticks or rolled up newspaper when joining extensions.

Synthetic 10mm Winch Rope Recovery Soft Shackle Grey Blue Saftey SK75 | eBay

Cheers, David

Originally Posted by alien

Running the strap I had through shackles is why it is now in the bin.
As you said sometimes we have to do things outside of the box, as long as it's safe.

Another thing I forgot to mention is that if you have to do it this way, don't run it over the shackle pin, depending on which direction the pull is from you may , due to friction, undo the pin from it's thread, has happened before and resulted in a fatality, Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by DeeJay

Probably worth a mention.
I'm pretty happy with myself as I just made up a synthetic "d" shackle from part of a broken length of synthetic rope I found in the bottom of a boghole up at Narbethong. Got a hell of a fright as it felt like a snake !!
I see they can be bought but there are tutorials on YouTube, so I had a go. Hopefully this will be better than sticks or rolled up newspaper when joining extensions.

Synthetic 10mm Winch Rope Recovery Soft Shackle Grey Blue Saftey SK75 | eBay

Cheers, David

How does that work? Do you pull the knob bit through the loop, if so what stops it pulling right back out, Regards Frank.

Originally Posted by Tank

Another thing I forgot to mention is that if you have to do it this way, don't run it over the shackle pin, depending on which direction the pull is from you may , due to friction, undo the pin from it's thread, has happened before and resulted in a fatality, Regards Frank.

I used the biggest shackles I had and kept the pin on the tree truck protector.
It did cross my mind the pin would undo if not done this way.
I can see how easily it could be done wrong for those who aren't focused.
I had 3 folk with little to no recovery experiance so I was constantly rechecking any work that was done.