Thread: Aluminium bulkheads on series 1's ? didnt know that?

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Que?

Look the same as steel 80" firewalls?

Only one answer to that statement I can get you an appointment if you can't see your own way there!

Actually I had 2 pairs of glasses made up by "SPECSAVERS" in
Triple C, Taree,this week for only $129 pair, great value . OPSM are true rip off merchants and want $170 each .love the specs. So dont go any near them if you want good reading glasses or others.

Irrespective of the writings of some Land Rover experts who maintain that these firewalls were produced when the "Rover" factory press broke down in 1949 (and the press may have broken down possibly on a couple of occasions) it is remarkable that:

1. There is no run of exclusively Aluminium / Steel fabricated firewalls when one would expect there to be a run (if the press broke down and production was continued). After all, up to hundreds of vehicles were assembled every week by the end of 80" production in 1953.

2. When an Aluminium / Steel fabricated firewall does turn up there are usually other vehicles in existence with vehicle numbers quite close that have standard pressed firewalls. Further, the few vehicles that have Aluminium / Steel fabricated firewalls span all the 1949/50/51/52/53 years of production - from a total of many tens of thousands of vehicles. So was the press breaking down all the time?

3. When the press may have broken down for the first time (1949) only a few months had elapsed from when ALL firewalls had been totally fabricated in steel sheet and some thicker sections (hinges, tops of A-posts, etc) for the first 1500 1948 models - Vehicle nos 860001 - 861500. So why on earth make a completely new design out of angle iron and other components? They already had a good design for a stopgap firewall. Even the bonnet hinges are bolted to the top edge of the firewall on the fabricated version.

4. These firewall have turned up all over the world in vehicles and also new old stock (NOS) ones have also surfaced here in Australia, Papua New Guinea and in British Military Stores disposals.

5. So - What is the explanation when there are effectively two versions of the Aluminium / Steel fabricated firewall - with and without sidelight position holes?

Pretty obviously they were/are a replacement part made AFTER the production of 80" vehicles ceased - most likely during the 1960s when any stock of original pressed firewalls was exhausted and 80" vehicles were needing firewalls owing to the cracking around the pressed area, accident damage or collision repair..........and rust!

Bob

According to John Smith's book, the die used in the press broke on four occasions, and each time alloy bulkheads were fabricated until it was repaired. The four occasions would perhaps explain the differences.

John

Originally Posted by JDNSW

According to John Smith's book, the die used in the press broke on four occasions, and each time alloy bulkheads were fabricated until it was repaired. The four occasions would perhaps explain the differences.

John

John,

I am not disputing the fact that the press may have broken down. John Smith's book is a marvellous contribution and like all books may stand corrected in some minor ways.

As I was careful to say there was already a fabricated firewall fitted to the first 1500 1948 models and there would have been tradesmen quite conversant with its production.
So the press breaks down and they make a more complex firewall that required lots of rivetting as opposed to simple folds and tack welding (the first 1500 firewalls have lots of tack welds rather than full runs). Anyway there would likely have been stockpiles of firewalls. There was also outsourcing even in those days - many parts for Land Rovers were made by other manufacturers.

However, to produce more than 15,000 vehicles in a year from the 1950 model (over 60 per day/5 day week) I would expect to see runs of the Aluminium / Steel fabricated firewalls for each alleged breadown.
The fact that there are many MORE vehicles with standard pressed firewalls around each of the few that have turned up - and some with close or consecutive numbers - points more to the later replacement part.

Also the NOS ones that exist - not many NOS pressed ones.

This area is now being researched as Charlie has said and the Series One Club and correspondents around the world are contributing a great deal of information that is calling into question some other "myths" about early Land Rovers.

Bob

Originally Posted by mildred

[B]
Actually I had 2 pairs of glasses made up by "SPECSAVERS" in
Triple C, Taree,this week for only $129 pair, great value . OPSM are <snip>

Do I need remind people about the name and shame rule?

We can name and praise but not name and shame however I will take the information about spectacle makers on board!

what would be good would be a template to make the alloy firewall
(looks like lot of rivets!)

it would get a lot more landys rolling!!

cant wait to hear how the rest of this thread goes

Bob presents some compelling points and I must say the "broken press" story doesn't make any sense to me.

Where I work as a maintenance fitter the press also breaks down at regular intervals and as it is the only press, production comes to a complete halt. In our case it is all hands on deck until the blasted thing is repaired.

Rover of course would have had the same policy and lying in the heart of industrial England there would have been hundreds of businesses and tradesmen to call upon to fix the press. I find it hard to imagine that something so catastrophic happened to the press (on 4 occasions!) that it was deemed economically sound to start a slow and laborious hand-fabricated replacement programme. ;or that the breakdown took so long to repair, given the skills and resources which abounded in those days!

Presses and dies, as we know, are immensely strong structures, so likely fail points can be limited to: electrics; hydraulics; or at the worst a wide-scale disaster such as fire, which would probably have destroyed more than the press and be well-known. The other two faults are relatively easy and quick to fix.

What is far more likely is that long after the 80" ceased to be produced, the dies were removed from the factory and destroyed/recycled; replacements then needed to be fabricated and as Bob points out they could have been made by any small fabrication shop in Britain as emergency replacement parts.

The press - being a very expensive piece of capital equipment and slow to wear - probably soldiered-on making new panels such as roofs for S1 and S2's ,

Cheers Charlie

The actual breakage is said to have been the die.

John