Thread: how many 48s

Originally Posted by andy_d110

What have you found?

Long gone I'm afraid, I did try to chase it up but have lucked out so far, I suspect that it has been squashed and gone to that big furnace in China.

The chap (Les Wells, he died late 70's) that owned this particular 80" Land rover, showed me a couple of interesting differences between the one that he was driving at the time and his later 80" wreck that he had already pulled some parts from to keep his going. He used to like comparing my 86" with his and did like the modern door handles that my Land Rover had.

He had taken off and wired a pair of bronze swivel pin housings together they where hanging on the pole in his lean to.
The pedals foot plates were cast from bronze.
The name badge was bronze and in the form of a folded ribbon, not a oval badge.
The tie down's for the sides straps were the staple type, ( I can't remember now what metal they were made from ).

Everything points to his first one being a prototype, as Les did tell me that it didn't have a chassis serial number, he used the engine number instead.
( I wonder if that engine number could be still retrieved from the Tasmanian Vehicle Registration Details? ).

Did Land rover sell some of their prototypes off as they where completed?

How come there isn't any of the Tasmanian dealers mentioned in that list that LRO53 posted here? sorry, I should add that list that andy_d110 posted as well.
A.G. Webster's and Gorringe's were prominent machinery and car dealers that time and sold Land Rovers, It's possible they imported direct form Britain, as A.G.Websters exported wool and apples at that time.

Another thing I remember about Les's 80", was that he had both the lights hinged so they could shine back into the engine bay, like the military model Jeep had. I don't think it that was built the way on that particular Land rover, but more likely that was something Les would do, as he loved to tinker.

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

How many of the 48's imported into Australia had the swivel pin ball housing's and the clutch and brake pedals foot plates made from bronze ?
.

The only one I have heard of is in Perth. The owner imported it when he moved here from overseas.

Keith

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

A.G. Webster's and Gorringe's were prominent machinery and car dealers that time and sold Land Rovers, It's possible they imported direct form Britain, as A.G.Websters exported wool and apples at that time.

Interesting advertisement for A. G. WEBSTER & SONS LTD, auction that includes a Land Rover. 1953

12 Dec 1953 - Advertising

.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

How many of the 48's imported into Australia had the swivel pin ball housing's and the clutch and brake pedals foot plates made from bronze ?
.

I do not think there is any record of that information for any of them, let alone the ones that came to Australia!

John

Remember the bronze components were pre-production parts but the early production models were being built before some of the late pre-production vehicles were assembled.

It's probably a bit like the early steering relays, (The ones without the spring loading,) the records don't show the change over and it is probably a bit of mix and match as the early vehicles were being built, whatever parts were available were used.

In the U.K. the early relay are a rare sight, but 260 AC seems to have identified vehicles right up to the pressed firewall '48 models that have them in Australia.

Another AULRO member, remembers seeing a pair of the bronze pedals hanging on a wall at Allspares on Silverwater Rd.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

Another AULRO member, remembers seeing a pair of the bronze pedals hanging on a wall at Allspares on Silverwater Rd.

so the obvious question is... are they still there (and watch the rush to the telephones....)

were these pedals used in any other vehicles or were they exclusively for landies?

Originally Posted by digger

so the obvious question is... are they still there (and watch the rush to the telephones....)

were these pedals used in any other vehicles or were they exclusively for landies?

Allspares moved from Silverwater Road more than 20 years ago and folded more than 10 years ago.

We would have already had the parts if they were still open.

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

Long gone I'm afraid, I did try to chase it up but have lucked out so far, I suspect that it has been squashed and gone to that big furnace in China.

The chap (Les Wells, he died late 70's) that owned this particular 80" Land rover, showed me a couple of interesting differences between the one that he was driving at the time and his later 80" wreck that he had already pulled some parts from to keep his going. He used to like comparing my 86" with his and did like the modern door handles that my Land Rover had.

He had taken off and wired a pair of bronze swivel pin housings together they where hanging on the pole in his lean to.
The pedals foot plates were cast from bronze.
The name badge was bronze and in the form of a folded ribbon, not a oval badge.
The tie down's for the sides straps were the staple type, ( I can't remember now what metal they were made from ). They were also brass or bronze.

Everything points to his first one being a prototype, as Les did tell me that it didn't have a chassis serial number, he used the engine number instead.
( I wonder if that engine number could be still retrieved from the Tasmanian Vehicle Registration Details? ). All the pre-production vehicles were numbered

Did Land rover sell some of their prototypes off as they where completed? Yes, many were sold, some went to Rover's R&D department so they may not have been disposed of even though derived from pre-productions. You can easily tell them - they had a galvanised chassis - not silver painted. In fact some production vehicles were completed before the last pre-productions. Did your friend's vehicle have a galvanised chassis?

How come there isn't any of the Tasmanian dealers mentioned in that list that LRO53 posted here? sorry, I should add that list that andy_d110 posted as well. Regent Motors were the distributors for Tasmania as well as the Riverina District including parts of NSW.
A.G. Webster's and Gorringe's were prominent machinery and car dealers that time and sold Land Rovers, It's possible they imported direct form Britain, as A.G.Websters exported wool and apples at that time. Very unlikely.

Another thing I remember about Les's 80", was that he had both the lights hinged so they could shine back into the engine bay, like the military model Jeep had. I don't think it that was built the way on that particular Land rover, but more likely that was something Les would do, as he loved to tinker.

I have seen a bronze oval badge (not a reproduction), the pedals Diana refers to and a few other bits.

Additionally, I have many parts from R860137 - engine 860159, front differential casing No 2 that is quite different to other 1948 casings, 1948 wheels, etc.
Remember these early vehicles were from the first weeks of production so they could easily contain "pre-production" parts.
R860137 was the first Land Rover actually sold to a customer in NSW on 31 December 1948 and is probably lost.

Bob

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

Did Land rover sell some of their prototypes off as they where completed?

How come there isn't any of the Tasmanian dealers mentioned in that list that LRO53 posted here? sorry, I should add that list that andy_d110 posted as well.
A.G. Webster's and Gorringe's were prominent machinery and car dealers that time and sold Land Rovers, It's possible they imported direct form Britain, as A.G.Websters exported wool and apples at that time.

Hi Arthur,

You have asked a lot of questions on this thread.

With the bronze parts they are actually made out of high tensile brass. The same kind of material a ship propeller.

The thing is with these prototype or pre pro parts and the way Rover moved instantly from Pre Production to Production of the Land Rover we often find that the very late pre pros have some production parts and the early production vehicles have pre pro parts.

The main importer for Victoria, Riverina and Tasmania was Regent Motors of Melbourne. I have always thought that knowing they had R860005 and R860026 that one
would have been to demo to their dealers in Victoria and the other in Tasmania. I have no idea which one stayed in Vic. All we know that one of them was registered in Vic by its engine number which was 860022.

So either of these two could have bronze parts or other pre pro parts. R860004 has a pre pro gearbox for example. R860020 in New Zealand, its chassis is almost an ungalvanized pre pro chassis. You could bolt a pre pro rear body to it in theory!

From one point of view the early production vehicles are more interesting that the pre production vehicles. As you can see the development work that the engineers were doing evolving on the very early production vehicles a lot more plus you often get this sprinkling of very early parts on them.

So the vehicle you came across I would say was either 5 or 26, given how few early vehicles came to Oz and 4 is accounted for. But then sometimes odd parts turn up on later vehicles. R860987 has a capping still drilled for the early pre pro style seats way after they stopped them.

I posted an old add for Donald Goringe on the LRSOC forum a few years ago. It is one of my favorites.

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Regent Motors being the main importer for Victoria, Riverina and Tasmania had local dealers in many country towns. The same with Grenville Motors in NSW. The Grenville Sales list exists, however the Regent Motors Sales list was said to have been destroyed when they closed.

So of the vehicles sent to Regent Motors we have no idea how many Regents then sent to their dealers in Tasmania.

All the info in the list I made up of Australian delivered 1948 models came straight from the 1948 Factory dispatch book. I then cross referenced it with as much local info I could get my hands on at the time. Obviously the Grenville sales list makes a huge impression on the overall list.

The idea behind this Oz 1948 list that I put together was when I was a teenager in Melbourne and looking for a 1948 LR, it seemed that every 80" was advertised as a '48' and you would go onto find it was a 1950 model or whatever else

Tony Hutchings had been very successful in listing the Pre Production vehicles so people could find them in the UK. So I thought a list like this for Oz would help a great deal for all.

So if anyone did come across an advertisement for a 1948 model 500 Ks away in the bush, you didn't have to waste time chasing around. A simple phone call and confirmation of the chassis number was all you had to do. Disposable cameras had just come on the scene at the time. So I often posted a camera to people with a self addressed envelope so they could send it back which also helped.

It worked a treat when R860997 turned up in the mid 1990s. The vehicle was purchased over the phone. I know others have put it to good use and vehicles have survived which is great.

Cheers