Thread: Oh dear! Loud bang and clatter racket.

G'day JayBoRover

My My, that looks very like an early Series 2 type of clutch slave cylinder mounting as noted in the parts and the Haynes manual,(Haynes 314) and that bellhousing looks like it is a 3 bolt starter unit (diesel) suit M45G starter, "Winklearthur" or "JDNSW" should be able to verify that, there should also be a semicircular cover plate/inspection plate under the front of the gearchange lever mounting (under the 2 bolts) that seals the clutch cover from water ingression also check the size of the brass spigot bush against the size of the input shaft, as there is a difference between the Rover flywheel size and that in the Holden flywheel, if that is incorrect, then the input shaft will float,and it will not be a straight line input drive.


cheers

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

before you go pulling it apart turn the input shaft by hand and run through the gear selection...

In neutral it turns fine. In first gear it turns nice for half a turn then gets a little "tight" and "rough" but does turn okay. As you continue to turn, it alternates between smooth and rough every half turn. In third gear it is very rough and gets very tight, until after a few turns it just locks up solid. Feels very, very horrible!

Originally Posted by UncleHo

My My, that looks very like an early Series 2 type of clutch slave cylinder mounting as noted in the parts and the Haynes manual,(Haynes 314) and that bellhousing looks like it is a 3 bolt starter unit (diesel) suit M45G starter, "Winklearthur" or "JDNSW" should be able to verify that,

This is a close up of the slave cylinder bracket on DeeDee:


It's a little different to the slave cylinder bracket on the '64 donor, but similar working principle.

Originally Posted by UncleHo

there should also be a semicircular cover plate/inspection plate under the front of the gearchange lever mounting (under the 2 bolts) that seals the clutch cover from water ingression

That explains the small cover plate I found just sitting on one of the chassis rails. It was just sitting there, not attached to anything but held in place by pressure from the passengers side floor plate.


So I assume this is the "water ingression hole" you refer to...


...and the plate goes here to cover the hole.


A quick check against the "reference" donor confirms this.

Originally Posted by UncleHo

also check the size of the brass spigot bush against the size of the input shaft, as there is a difference between the Rover flywheel size and that in the Holden flywheel, if that is incorrect, then the input shaft will float,and it will not be a straight line input drive.

This weekend I did manage to separate the transfer box from the gearbox but I have been unable to separate the gearbox from the bell-housing so can't really start taking the gearbox apart to see what's wrong. There is a 1 1/8" nut on the end of the layshaft that I can not get undone. I need a impact socket for my rattle gun, or at least a large enough socket, to get over it. Off to the shops this week I guess. At least the transfer box looks okay and the main bearings on the main shaft and layshaft look okay from the bell-housing end, so I'm pretty sure the problem is "inside".

Ciao
John B

Originally Posted by JayBoRover

In neutral it turns fine. In first gear it turns nice for half a turn then gets a little "tight" and "rough" but does turn okay. As you continue to turn, it alternates between smooth and rough every half turn. In third gear it is very rough and gets very tight, until after a few turns it just locks up solid. Feels very, very horrible!


This is a close up of the slave cylinder bracket on DeeDee:


It's a little different to the slave cylinder bracket on the '64 donor, but similar working principle.



That explains the small cover plate I found just sitting on one of the chassis rails. It was just sitting there, not attached to anything but held in place by pressure from the passengers side floor plate.


So I assume this is the "water ingression hole" you refer to...


...and the plate goes here to cover the hole.


A quick check against the "reference" donor confirms this.




This weekend I did manage to separate the transfer box from the gearbox but I have been unable to separate the gearbox from the bell-housing so can't really start taking the gearbox apart to see what's wrong. There is a 1 1/8" nut on the end of the layshaft that I can not get undone. I need a impact socket for my rattle gun, or at least a large enough socket, to get over it. Off to the shops this week I guess. At least the transfer box looks okay and the main bearings on the main shaft and layshaft look okay from the bell-housing end, so I'm pretty sure the problem is "inside".

Ciao
John B

Hi John

A sturdy 3/4", drive bar, short extension and 1 1/8" socket for that nut.
Then try and select first gear, slide an old clutch plate on the input shaft and holding that securely, should be enough to undo it.

Cheers Arthur

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

Hi John

A sturdy 3/4", drive bar, short extension and 1 1/8" socket for that nut.
Then try and select first gear, slide an old clutch plate on the input shaft and holding that securely, should be enough to undo it.

Cheers Arthur

or pop the top off and select 3rd AND reverse manually and it will lock up the gearbox and make it a heap easier to undo that nut.

I did as was suggested and bought a 3/8" drive socket and a 125mm extension bar. Ended up I still needed the rattle gun and even then it took a lot of goes. Anyway, the verdict:


Broken Main Shaft.

Looking back at the end of the Main Shaft still in the gearbox:


A nicely sheared shaft:


Sheared just behind the synchro clutch cages:


One chunk of metal in here that doesn't belong but no damage to the teeth at all from what I can tell so far. Dissasembly will tell the full story of course.


I did note a severe pitting on a tooth at the very rear of the lay shaft. I'll have to have a look at what this one does.


So the question now is do I pull parts out of my donor gearbox to rebuild this one, transplant the entire donor gearbox into DeeDee or source just the parts I need to rebuild this one now that I have it apart?

Cheers
John B

Id pull the donor box down and make a gearbox from the 2. Carefully Inspect all parts and if you find something well worn from both boxes, source a better one.

You can get gasket and bearing kits from the usual suspects and setup any clearances to spec from the workshop manual. Because you have no synchro in 1 / 2 gears it should be less expensive to do up than the SIII...maybe.

Try and avoid the el-cheapo bearings and stick with Jap or Timkens and other quality brands. Ensure that mainshaft nut is torqued up to 100ft/lb on re-assembly.

Would be a good time to overhaul the transfer case as well while its out of the vehicle. The usual procedure is a kit with bearings, gaskets, thrust washers and reset the bearing preload with the speedo cover shims.

Workshop manual will be needed. W

Originally Posted by Wallydog

Id pull the donor box down and make a gearbox from the 2. Carefully Inspect all parts and if you find something well worn from both boxes, source a better one.

You can get gasket and bearing kits from the usual suspects and setup any clearances to spec from the workshop manual. Because you have no synchro in 1 / 2 gears it should be less expensive to do up than the SIII...maybe.

Try and avoid the el-cheapo bearings and stick with Jap or Timkens and other quality brands. Ensure that mainshaft nut is torqued up to 100ft/lb on re-assembly. I assume you mean the nut on the front end of the Lay Shaft? The Main Shaft nut at the rear has a locking tab and is not "tight" at all. Maybe that's a contributing factor to my failure? I'll check the torque spec's in the manual. Thanks for the heads-up.

Would be a good time to overhaul the transfer case as well while its out of the vehicle. The usual procedure is a kit with bearings, gaskets, thrust washers and reset the bearing preload with the speedo cover shims.

Workshop manual will be needed. W

Cheers

Originally Posted by JayBoRover

Cheers

The layshaft nut on my series 3 was bolted up to 55ft/lb with loctite 243 on the thread. Thats important as there is no locking tab on that one, wasn't on mine. The mainshaft is the castellated nut at the back of the mainshaft with a lock tab, to 100ft/lb. W