Thread: Locking hubs

I've been told by quite a number of people who see my land rover that the hubs I have (exactly the same as those pictured by you Warb) are one of the best FWH setups around. They said that most people only removed them because they were big and not the most attractive thing to look at but that as far as a comparison to other fwh systems they are apparently the bees knees.

Originally Posted by Warb

So maintenance or lack thereof, regular engagement or lack thereof all play a part. I'm not convinced about the lack of maintenance specific to front propshafts - if the owner or mechanic is underneath with a grease gun I find it hard to believe that he/she would ignore the front shaft because it doesn't get much use......

Nevertheless, having removed the uncracked SUE PowerLock and run it through the parts cleaner, here are more photo's for anyone interested:

(Photo from rear of unit) When disengaged, the hub spins separately to the driveshaft on this nylon bush.
Attachment 41685


The engage/disengage is done by rotating a pair of cams in the deeper lobes of the aluminium hub.
Attachment 41686


The cam itself (one of a pair per hub). The cam is sealed with a O ring to prevent grease exiting through the faceplate (or dirt entering). A spring pushes the cam down in to the hub, where a pair of depressions line up with the two lobes on the base of the cam to help locate the cam in either the engaged or disengaged position (in practice it can be left at any position with nasty consequences). When engaged, the solid side of the cam engages the star gear, and the drive is transmitted to the case only by the two 5mm sections (on the right hand side in this picture).
Attachment 41687

When engaged, the drive is transmitted through two cams to the outer case of the hub which is about 5mm thick at this point. Because the star gear is attempting to push the cam outwards, this is the point of failure where the case gives way and the cam is forced out through the side. This reportedly happens mainly when only one cam is engaged, though some people say they have seen both sides pushed outwards simultaneously.
Attachment 41688

Witness marks on the inside of the hub show where the two 5mm lobes of the cam transmit the drive when the hub is engaged.
Attachment 41689

Although I can't upload a sixth picture in this post, the solid side of the cam and the star gear both have witness marks showing where the drive is transmitted from the star to the lobe on the cam when engaged. Rather than being even wear across the full surface, which would demonstrate a well mated pair of components, both show that contact is made only over a strip about 1.5mm wide. The surface of the cams appears to be breaking down to some extent, and strangely shows several strips of engagement whilst the gear shows only one per lobe - perhaps the hub has been run with the cams not quite aligned correctly?

Originally Posted by pfillery

I've been told by quite a number of people who see my land rover that the hubs I have (exactly the same as those pictured by you Warb) are one of the best FWH setups around. They said that most people only removed them because they were big and not the most attractive thing to look at but that as far as a comparison to other fwh systems they are apparently the bees knees.

Yet on this very forum it has been stated that they are about the weakest FWH's ever made! I guess personal opinion and experience, and possibly peer pressure or "learned opinions" play a big part!

I have had good experiences with FWH's on Hilux's, but without a great deal of personal experience of using them on LR's in all honesty I can only judge by what I have seen whilst trying not to be too influenced by what people have said.

On that basis, I have three sets of FWH's on Series Land Rovers. The only set that have self destructed, as far as I know, are the SUE PowerLocks as pictured above. One other set (Warn?) have external damage from hitting something, obviously always a risk when the unit pokes out the side further than anything else!

Having cleaned and examined the PowerLock, considered the materials used, the design and the wear patterns shown, I can't say I'm overly impressed. Whilst the Series LR is not the worlds most powerful vehicle, there is still the potential for the entire output of the engine, and the inertia of spinning wheels, to be transmitted as a shock load through the FWH. In the case of the PowerLock, all that energy goes through four cam lobes, each 5mm across, on to an aluminium case that is less than 5mm thick at its thinnest point.

Given the issues of lubrication, strength and handbrake interference, each user must weigh up the pro's and cons and decide for themselves. I have never needed 2WD low range (though I tow trailers almost daily), don't do lots of mileage (so possible fuel savings aren't important), and am replacing all the driveshafts and bearings so I don't need vibration reduction or want any risk of increasing the wear on these new components. On that basis......

It's perhaps also worth considering that whilst locking hubs have been available for much (if not all) of the life of the vehicles, Land Rover themselves as far as I know never chose to fit them. Whilst I fully understand the economics of car production, if the designers of the vehicle thought that they genuinely added value without adding risk, would they not have offered them at least as an extra cost option? It is unlike car manufacturers to allow somebody else to make an easy profit fitting options to their cars!

I know what you are saying.

I've never had the need or inclination to engage 4x4 either high or low in 15 months of series ownership, even managing to pull another dead series 3 lwb (with low tyre pressure, and one stuck brake drum) up a wet grassy hill in 2wd.

Originally Posted by pfillery

I know what you are saying.

I've never had the need or inclination to engage 4x4 either high or low in 15 months of series ownership, even managing to pull another dead series 3 lwb (with low tyre pressure, and one stuck brake drum) up a wet grassy hill in 2wd.

I would rather engage 4WD and not risk breaking something, but then again I'm obviously a chicken.

Originally Posted by pfillery

I've been told by quite a number of people who see my land rover that the hubs I have (exactly the same as those pictured by you Warb) are one of the best FWH setups around. They said that most people only removed them because they were big and not the most attractive thing to look at but that as far as a comparison to other fwh systems they are apparently the bees knees.

If you are talking about the SUE hubs, they are only the bees knees if you only have mosquito knees to compare them with.

SUE hubs are the only brand of hubs that I have actually seen parts coming out the side of. Yes they are big and yes they do protrude a lot but they get removed because they have the worst reputation for failure bar none.

Originally Posted by Lotz-A-Landies

I would rather engage 4WD and not risk breaking something, but then again I'm obviously a chicken.

with a sals down the back and any series engine up the front on standard series gear you aint gunna break nothing in 2 hi it'll stall or you'll burn out the clutch, and frankly if you manage to burn out the clutch in a series in a single shot you deserve to drive a kia.

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

with a sals down the back and any series engine up the front on standard series gear you aint gunna break nothing in 2 hi it'll stall or ...

Except we are in the Series 2a section and very few SIIa had Sals rear.

So what the general consenus on what the best hubs are?

1. Warn
2. SUE
3. No hubs
4. Other brands

This tends to get confusing after a while