Series III SWB Soft Top Rear Seats - Advice Needed

**Esmac** · 7th January 2016, 08:40 AM

Originally Posted by debruiser

Why don't you just throw the cab back on, chuck in the seats, then take it to another guy for inspection - get the certification, then go home and reconfigure it to whatever you want to have.

This really seems like the simplest solution and the way I would attack it. rock up with the hard top and seats and let him sort it out.

When I took mine in for rego (QLD) I was told that mine couldnt be a wagon as it only has 2 seats. I showed her a picture and she agreed it certainly was a wagon. she walked off, added 2 seat wagon option to the system and carried on with the paperwork.

I really feel for you mate!

**debruiser** · 7th January 2016, 08:41 AM

This thread might be helpful, although it was concerning engines touches on the whole ute, wagon, panel van thing.

QLD rego, blue plates, restorations and engine reversals

**Alistair** · 7th January 2016, 09:50 AM

Originally Posted by Esmac

This really seems like the simplest solution and the way I would attack it. rock up with the hard top and seats and let him sort it out.

When I took mine in for rego (QLD) I was told that mine couldnt be a wagon as it only has 2 seats. I showed her a picture and she agreed it certainly was a wagon. she walked off, added 2 seat wagon option to the system and carried on with the paperwork.

I really feel for you mate!

To be honest I agree with you and this is what I would do if it was 'just' a soft top. I still have the hard top and the rear door in the garage and it would be easy enough to unbolt the hood sticks and put it back as a wagon.

Unfortunately I have gone beyond this now and have a 6 point internal/external cage bolted through the bodywork and onto the chassis (following the line of the original hood sticks (photos)) and a half height rear door and swing away spare wheel carrier in place. The rear mounting points for the cage take up on the rear winch bumper mounting points which is yet more nuts and bolts.

This is all unboltable but it has gone from a minor job to an utter pain in the arse requiring a large shed with roof mounted hoist. It would take me days to pull it all apart and then put it all back together again and it is not a 1 man job. Also it took a load of effort to get everything bolted together straight and I really don't want to go through that again.

As I said in a previous post, the saving grace here is that the cage was built by Whitbread Engineering (UK) - a well known competition cage manufacturer - with reference to the Australian LK codes for ROPS. I was fully anticipating this sort of farce when the car arrived here in Australia and wanted to make sure that if I needed to get the 'heavy duty hoodsticks' certified as a cage I could. VSB5 - Construction and Installation of Additional Seats by Individuals - indicates that I can install seats in the back of a UTE, providing a certified ROPS is fitted.

The easiest way ahead for me now is to get the cage engineered and certified and then apply to install the seats. The man from the ministry has told me to re-submit my application on this basis. The point for me now (apart from time and cost) is that this is completely unnecessary when one considers the number of soft top ex-ADF trucks running around in private hands with bench seats in the back. I really struggle to see why anyone should have to jump through these sort of hoops to retro-fit factory installed seats (under second edition ADRs) in a soft top vehicle, when I could go out and buy exactly the same thing when one next appears on ebay and drive around in it quite legally.... In fact it doesn't exactly inspire much respect for the system/law at all if things are that ridiculous.

I have presented that argument to the man from the ministry, together with the references from the LK codes and VSB5, which indicate that this shouldn't be a problem. Not holding my breath though - certified ROPS here I come....

**Esmac** · 7th January 2016, 09:55 AM

Does sound like the paperwork will be far less work than the removal of that epic cage!

I wish you luck and keep us posted!

**debruiser** · 7th January 2016, 01:03 PM

That thing is awesome! I can see what you mean by not wanting to remove that roll cage.

**Alistair** · 7th January 2016, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by debruiser

That thing is awesome! I can see what you mean by not wanting to remove that roll cage.

Thanks for that!

Kids agree.
Wife doesn't(!)

Got carried away when rebuilding it...

I have posted it before, but there are a few more photos here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/5mdvolusp...YaAKa'dl=0

Almost finished (for now). Just need to get the winches on the front and back and get the GRP doors sprayed to sort of match the rest of the shades of green..... and sort out the seats in the back.

**Lionelgee** · 7th January 2016, 03:17 PM

Hello Alistair,

It looks like the seats in the back of a Series III SWB were fitted by the manufacturer and one would think that this complied to the design standards of the day. There is a Series III short wheel base soft top with inward facing seats for sale in Queensland. It carries an old number plate so this means it was registered and past road worthy at some stage.

There was another Series III with a hard top on Gumtree that had the inward facing seats too and it was previously registered - in Queensland. The owner states that ... This Series 3 Hard Top has been MOD Plated to accommodate two rear seats therefore able to carry up to 7 people legally

Check out these links accessed 7th of January 2016 from, 1973 Land Rover Other Wagon | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Brisbane North West - Brisbane City | 1099961116.

1972 Land Rover (4X4) Coupe | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Gold Coast City - Labrador | 1099455607

Perhaps you could take your vehicle to another vehicle inspector?

Can you also get a manufacturer's specification sheet for each model variant to let the powers that be know the vehicles were fitted with seats that faced inwards? For example one for sale on eBay Land Rover Series III Specification Guide 1847973205 | eBay

I have no association with any sellers mentioned in this message.

Kind Regards
Lionel

**Alistair** · 7th January 2016, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by Lionelgee

It looks like the seats in the back of a Series III SWB were fitted by the manufacturer and one would think that this complied to the design standards of the day. There is a Series III short wheel base soft top with inward facing seats for sale in Queensland. It carries an old number plate so this means it was registered and past road worthy at some stage.

There was another Series III with a hard top on Gumtree that had the inward facing seats too and it was previously registered - in Queensland. The owner states that ... This Series 3 Hard Top has been MOD Plated to accommodate two rear seats therefore able to carry up to 7 people legally

Check out these links accessed 7th of January 2016 from, 1973 Land Rover Other Wagon | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Brisbane North West - Brisbane City | 1099961116.

1972 Land Rover (4X4) Coupe | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Gold Coast City - Labrador | 1099455607

Perhaps you could take your vehicle to another vehicle inspector?

Can you also get a manufacturer's specification sheet for each model variant to let the powers that be know the vehicles were fitted with seats that faced inwards? For example one for sale on eBay Land Rover Series III Specification Guide 1847973205 | eBay

Hi Lionel

Thank you very much for your post. The Series III hard top doesn't help me because the inspector wouldn't have a problem with the rear seats if mine was a hard top. Seats in the back of a wagon is fine - seats in the back of a UTE is not. Simple as that in his mind.

The link to the soft top however is precisely what I am after in evidence for the WA DoT man and potentially fantastically helpful. He was insistent that this configuration could not possibly legally exist in Australia, either as a manufacturer supplied option or an ADR compliant conversion - which is precisely what my problem was. It has to be said that I did forward him a load of photos of ADF vehicles in this configuration and I haven't received a response to that yet, but...

I will contact the seller of that car and see if he will give me the car's VIN number. Armed with that, the registration and the photos I should be able to demonstrate to the WA DOT that the configuration was marketed in Australia so there should be no problem fitting my car out the same way as it was a manufacturer's original option and 2nd edition ADR compliant.

The only potential problem will come if it transpires that the car on gumtree was a hard top which someone has converted without putting it past the local DoT....

Also it is funny that you should point out the specification guide - I ordered one of those two nights ago and it is currently on its way from the East Coast!

**mick88** · 7th January 2016, 09:30 PM

The option of putting rear seats in a series Land Rover when purchasing it new was probably as simple as ticking a box and paying the extra coin for the seats.
I have a 1971 88" 2A Hardtop which I am the second owner of, complete with the purchase receipt.

Dated 24-12-71
Purchased from Regent Motors P/L, 86 Sturt Street, South Melbourne.
It is referred to as a, Model 88" Full Metal Top Land Rover
Accessories: Rear Door in lieu $100.00
De Luxe trim 44.00
Sun Visors (2) 14.55
700 x 16 x 6 tyres 94.20
2 Rear Seats 50.00

Total amount paid including sales tax and Vic rego and after a $342.00 discount was $3770.00

What a ripper of Christmas present that would have been in 1971.

I know it is a 2A and it is a hard top, but it is a shame for your sake Alistair that it wasn't a soft top, as it was probably that simple.

Cheers, Mick.

**Alistair** · 8th January 2016, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by mick88

The option of putting rear seats in a series Land Rover when purchasing it new was probably as simple as ticking a box and paying the extra coin for the seats.
I have a 1971 88" 2A Hardtop which I am the second owner of, complete with the purchase receipt.

Dated 24-12-71
Purchased from Regent Motors P/L, 86 Sturt Street, South Melbourne.
It is referred to as a, Model 88" Full Metal Top Land Rover
Accessories: Rear Door in lieu $100.00
De Luxe trim 44.00
Sun Visors (2) 14.55
700 x 16 x 6 tyres 94.20
2 Rear Seats 50.00

Total amount paid including sales tax and Vic rego and after a $342.00 discount was $3770.00

What a ripper of Christmas present that would have been in 1971.

I know it is a 2A and it is a hard top, but it is a shame for your sake Alistair that it wasn't a soft top, as it was probably that simple.

Cheers, Mick.

Thanks Mick

I think that about encapsulates it. Basically the full Land Rover optional parts catalogue was (of course) available in Australia at the time. If you wanted to tick the soft top option with rear seats and pay a few quid more, that was absolutely fine at the time.

The problem now is convincing WA DoT that this was the case, because, of course, you couldn't possibly ever have specified rear seats in the back of 'a UTE'.

Yeah, Ok, as we all know, this is of course complete bollocks (as demonstrated by 2000 odd ADF Series III 109s) but there we are. That is government for you. The unfortunate thing for me at the moment is that, for whatever societal reasons in the late 1970s to early 1980s, very, very few people in Australia apart from the ADF seem to have specified soft tops, much less soft tops with rear seats. Personally I can't think why you would specify a hard top without air-con in Australia but that is another question. Perhaps it wasn't the done thing if you could afford a Land Rover at the time.

Anyway, there seems to be very few examples of SWB soft top Series IIIs with rear seats which I can show to demonstrate that they did exist and were legal - which is a historically interesting point in itself I suppose.

I am really struggling to believe though that someone here doesn't have a legally registered SIII SWB (or even LWB soft top) with rear seats... Must be out there somewhere.

Thread: Series III SWB Soft Top Rear Seats - Advice Needed

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