Thread: Swivel ball leaks?

asssh did yours leak not long after? W

No problems at all mate.
It was the swivel pin which was the main issue on mine, even without shims there was no preload.
I run straight oil and it never leaks.

I had the grease in there prior and it was a pain.
It makes it very difficult to see how much is in the swivel and if top-up is required.

How did I miss this thread Steve?
Just last week I finally traced and fixed a swivel seal leak that has been bugging me for about 8 years. Having portals that share the lubricant supply with the rest of the front axle, I don't have the option of using grease in the swivels. For ages I couldn't trace where the oil was getting out, but last week decided to wash everything down and lay under the truck until oil began to appear again.It turned out that it wasn't getting past the lips of the seal, but from around the outer circumference through the recessed seat in the outer swivel housing and out from under the metal seal retainer.
I removed the 6 bolts from the retainer and pulled the seal away to have a look. I noticed a thin uneven layer of crud in the machined recess of the housing where the inner edge of the seal body seats against. Oil was getting past the gaps in the layer of crud, so with a sharp scraper I cleaned the crud away, reinstalled the seal, refilled with oil and lay down for another half hour to check for leaks. Sure enough oil began to creep out again from under the metal retainer, so I deduced that the retainer wasn;t applying enough pressure against the seal for it to seat correctly in the outer swivel housing. I thought about cutting a large shim from thin sheet metal to fit between the retainer and the seal, but then elected instead to attack the retainer with a ball ended hammer to apply more seating pressure to the seal.
The repair was 100% successful, no leaks or seeping whatsoever, despite my seals being old, bent and banged up from regularly ploughing through and over fallen trees and branches on my land .
One other factor that determins the effectiveness of the swivel seal, is how much off centre the outer swivel housing is in relation to the swivel ball. This is adjustable by transposing shims between the upper and lower swivel pins, once you have acheived the correct preload.I check mine with a vernier with the seal removed.
Wagoo.

Originally Posted by wagoo

How did I miss this thread Steve?
Just last week I finally traced and fixed a swivel seal leak that has been bugging me for about 8 years. Having portals that share the lubricant supply with the rest of the front axle, I don't have the option of using grease in the swivels. For ages I couldn't trace where the oil was getting out, but last week decided to wash everything down and lay under the truck until oil began to appear again.It turned out that it wasn't getting past the lips of the seal, but from around the outer circumference through the recessed seat in the outer swivel housing and out from under the metal seal retainer.
I removed the 6 bolts from the retainer and pulled the seal away to have a look. I noticed a thin uneven layer of crud in the machined recess of the housing where the inner edge of the seal body seats against. Oil was getting past the gaps in the layer of crud, so with a sharp scraper I cleaned the crud away, reinstalled the seal, refilled with oil and lay down for another half hour to check for leaks. Sure enough oil began to creep out again from under the metal retainer, so I deduced that the retainer wasn;t applying enough pressure against the seal for it to seat correctly in the outer swivel housing. I thought about cutting a large shim from thin sheet metal to fit between the retainer and the seal, but then elected instead to attack the retainer with a ball ended hammer to apply more seating pressure to the seal.
The repair was 100% successful, no leaks or seeping whatsoever, despite my seals being old, bent and banged up from regularly ploughing through and over fallen trees and branches on my land .
One other factor that determins the effectiveness of the swivel seal, is how much off centre the outer swivel housing is in relation to the swivel ball. This is adjustable by transposing shims between the upper and lower swivel pins, once you have acheived the correct preload.I check mine with a vernier with the seal removed.
Wagoo.

Good work Wagoo. Unfortunately for me the swivel pins are rockin and clunking so I need to repair that first. Could be that movement is part of the leaky problem. Interesting about the retainer, it could well be that mine needs attention in that area? I will take note of that and the centreing of the ball to housing. Ill set up the lights and do a thorough washdown and lie under there and watch the oil flow. Thanks for the tips and good work with that ballpein. S.

Originally Posted by ashhhhh

No problems at all mate.
It was the swivel pin which was the main issue on mine, even without shims there was no preload.
I run straight oil and it never leaks.

I had the grease in there prior and it was a pain.
It makes it very difficult to see how much is in the swivel and if top-up is required.

Good one ashhhh, i just had this recollection of someone doing the job and the damn thing leaked not long after. It wasn't you and thats good. Hopefully I get the same result. I see you used Gary CLRs kit, i will source a kit from him next week. Some of the parts i get from him are from Bearmach which do the job. W

Originally Posted by Wallydog

....... Could be that movement is part of the leaky problem. ......

My feeling is that it is likely to be 100% of the problem! But since you have to replace the bushes (and maybe pin and lower bearing) you should fit new seals.

I always put a little sealant in the recess to ensure that there is no leak there, but of course the retainer must press the seal firmly into place, otherwise it will be loose on the ball as well.

John

My feeling is that it is likely to be 100% of the problem!

Yeah I agree.
The first I knew about the worn pins on mine was when I jacked the front-end up for some other job.
The wheel rocked inwards because of the play (5mm+) and grease immediately oozed out between the seal and ball.

Originally Posted by JDNSW

My feeling is that it is likely to be 100% of the problem! But since you have to replace the bushes (and maybe pin and lower bearing) you should fit new seals.

I always put a little sealant in the recess to ensure that there is no leak there, but of course the retainer must press the seal firmly into place, otherwise it will be loose on the ball as well.

John

John thanks. Both sides have play in them but drivers side is not bad at all. Very small amount of movement and there appears to be no oil dripping. Might leave that side and see what rego inspector says about it. You really have to give it a good shake to feel the small amount of play whereas the other side requires little effort to make the swivel pins move and clunk.

Ill get a kit from CLR, it comes with pins, seals, bushes gaskets etc and the bottom bearing so will attempt to do a thorough job. W.