Manual Choke 202 Holden Motor

[Lionelgee]

Hello All,

Rebus my Series III 109 inch ute has a 202 ci Red Motor out of an early HQ. Over the weekend I fitted a new Stromberg re-manufactured carburettor and it has presented a wee problem. A previous owner must have for some reason fitted an old Stromberg carburettor designed for a 161 motor - that solely has a manual choke. The old 161 carburettor's butterfly valve is normally open. As in one pulls the choke lever inside the cabin and the butterfly valve closes. I checked the code on the carburettor in a Stromberg manual and it stated the old carburettor was meant to be fitted to a 161 ci motor. The 161 carburettor was knackered so I bought the new 202 ci one.

The new Stromberg carburettor is a hybrid which was designed to be fitted either with an automatic choke or a manual choke. It only came with a blanking plate on the inlet manifold and the brackets for the manual choke cable. It also has a butterfly valve that is normally closed. I bought the new carburettor off a specialist re-manufacturer and supplier and asked for it to suit the 202 ci motor.

When the choke cable is fitted in its normal configuration - pulling back towards the seat nothing happens. So the butterfly valve stays normally closed.

To get around this I have jerry rigged the cable to go from the front of the carburettor so that with the cable fully pulled out the butterfly valve stays open. It means that the choke control has to stay out for normal running and is pushed in to operate the "choke" and close the butterfly valve.

Is there anyway I can rig up a lever and springs so I can override the normally closed butterfly valve and make it normally open - while having the choke control in the cabin in the normally closed position like they traditionally are meant to be?

Or is another option to see if I can source all the parts to make it an automatic choke? Which are more reliable and efficient manual or automatic chokes?

I can live with the choke cable normally pulled out - however it is a bit of a pain.

Thanks for your help and I look forward to your replies.

Kind Regards
Lionel

P.S. Hmmm looks like the thumbnail photographs are logging me out again so time to revert to "Plan B".

[bee utey]

I suspect that you've got the throttle return spring hooked onto the choke mechanism instead of the throttle. I've never ever seen an auto close choke on a single barrel Strommie and I used to put gas conversions on absolutely heaps of them.

[Lionelgee]

I suspect that you've got the throttle return spring hooked onto the choke mechanism instead of the throttle. I've never ever seen an auto close choke on a single barrel Strommie and I used to put gas conversions on absolutely heaps of them.

Hello Bee Utey,

I checked and the spring is hooked up separately to the accelerator mechanism - well as far as I can tell. What can you see in the photographs?

Hang on the photographs are not playing nice...

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I suspect that you've got the throttle return spring hooked onto the choke mechanism instead of the throttle......

I guess that would make it an automatic (or even a mandatory) choke!

[Lionelgee]

Hello All, most likely Bee Utey in particular,

I am not a mechanic, I just noticed that the arrangement of the butterfly valve was different - even with no spring connected. I then rang a friend and it was suggested that it could be because it may have come with the option of an automatic choke. I would not know differently.

Anyway, there are some other things different between the 161 ci carburettor and the 202 ci carburettor. Namely, a blanking plate held by two bolts on the inlet manifold. A small vacuum barb on the left of the inlet manifold on the 202 that the old 161 manifold does not have. The second thing is on the throat of the 202 carburettor it has a vacuum outlet fitting that the 161 does not have.

I thought the extra vacuum points and the blanking plate may have something to do with pollution control stuff or an automatic choke.

I checked the Engine Number and the 202 is an early HQ motor and there is no obvious places where the extra vacuum points may fit to on the motor.

Can anyone give me some idea where the extra vacuum lines should go and what is fitted to the inlet manifold where the blanking plate is fitted?

I blanked off the two extra vacuum points with what I had on hand at the time. I will make them prettier once I know where they should connect to; or if they need to be more permanently blocked off? Hopefully I have not offended anyone with my stopgap measures

Oh I remembered that there is a blanked off plug where I think a vacuum hose with a PC (?) valve used to go on other 202s I have seen in the past that fit just near the breather/oil filler cap on top of the rocker cover - just visible in one of the photographs below. I have no idea what or where the vacuum hose from the rocker cover should connect to? That memory eludes me at the moment!


Kind Regards
Lionel

[bee utey]

Hello Bee Utey,

I checked and the spring is hooked up separately to the accelerator mechanism - well as far as I can tell. What can you see in the photographs?

Hang on the photographs are not playing nice...

Kind Regards
Lionel

The spring is clearly hooked up to the lever under the throttle shaft. That lever is designed to increase the idle speed with more choke. The only spring required to operate the choke is a tiny thing inside the lever that the choke cable connects to. Remove the big spring off the idle-up arm and make it pull on the black semicircle thing full of holes. Also I've never ever seen a single barrel Strommie on any 6 cylinder Holden with an automatic choke, they were only fitted to the 2 barrel WW2 Strommie.

The blanking plate and extra vacuum fittings will be for the exhaust gas recirculation valve and the charcoal canister, both applicable to ADR27A engines sometime after 1976. They were never fitted to HQ's. Your manifold and carby will be off a HJ to HZ or VB Commodore, not a HQ.

[Lionelgee]

The spring is clearly hooked up to the lever under the throttle shaft. That lever is designed to increase the idle speed with more choke. The only spring required to operate the choke is a tiny thing inside the lever that the choke cable connects to. Remove the big spring off the idle-up arm and make it pull on the black semicircle thing full of holes. Also I've never ever seen a single barrel Strommie on any 6 cylinder Holden with an automatic choke, they were only fitted to the 2 barrel WW2 Strommie.

The blanking plate and extra vacuum fittings will be for the exhaust gas recirculation valve and the charcoal canister, both applicable to ADR27A engines sometime after 1976. They were never fitted to HQ's. Your manifold and carby will be off a HJ to HZ or VB Commodore, not a HQ.

G'day Bee Utey,

Sorry for trying your patience Bee Utey.

I have removed the spring. Now there are absolutely no external springs attached anywhere.

However, the butterfly valve is still normally closed. So I still have the same issue of only being able open the butterfly valve by pulling out the choke cable.

Funny how I asked the supplier specifically for a carburettor and inlet manifold for a early HQ.

My concern is that when the day eventually arrives for the roadworthy inspection that an inspector will see the blanked off fittings and think I have deliberately tampered with the anti-pollution stuff. Equipment that as you suggest the early HQ was never fitted with.

Would I be better off sourcing a locally supplied HQ and getting the manifold and carburettor off it and getting the carburettor rebuilt - locally?

I bought the re-manufactured carburettor off an eBay supplier and had to send the first one back because the top section of the carburettor under the angle iron reinforcing plate would not screw down level. Is the piece called the "air horn" because it was warped - so much for their quality control and final inspection.

I decided to buy a re-manufactured carburettor and new manifold from the same supplier to avoid problems. I figured even I could unbolt the old and exchange the new inlet manifolds and carburettors.

I connected the spring to the wrong place when I removed the lever and ball joint operated accelerator linkage and replaced it with the cable controlled one for Rebus. I did not notice at the time where both ends of the spring were anchored. One lesson learned. Thanks Bee Utey.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[bee utey]

This ebay listing

Holden HQ HJ LH Torana RED 202 Motor Carby Stromberg Carburettor | eBay

shows a late emission HJ/HX carby with the spring in the correct position. You will have to find what other spring causes the choke to close automatically as it isn't supposed to be there. The fast idle arm should fall under gravity with the choke off.

This picture shows the correct manifold for a HQ, not 100% sure about the carburettor, but the seller should be able to advise.

Manifold AND Carby Package HQ HJ BIG Base | eBay

The carby at least has no charcoal canister connections on it.

I have no idea where you'd find an actual HQ setup at a sensible price, no doubt someone on AULRO has a shed full of them.

Edit: Oh and the plug behind the filler cap should be the engine fresh air inlet from a fitting in the side of the air filter lid, with a small foam element to stop the dust. The vented filler cap your engine has belongs to a 161/186 series and should be a flat cap on a 202 together with the correct inlet hose. it's supposed to stop the typical Old Holden oily streak down the rocker cover when you push the engine hard and fumes come out of the cap. They're supposed to be eaten by the engine via the vent hose to the air cleaner. The PCV of course fits to the back of the rocker cover and goes to full manifold vacuum by the base of the carby.

[Lionelgee]

This ebay listing

Holden HQ HJ LH Torana RED 202 Motor Carby Stromberg Carburettor | eBay

shows a late emission HJ/HX carby with the spring in the correct position. You will have to find what other spring causes the choke to close automatically as it isn't supposed to be there. The fast idle arm should fall under gravity with the choke off.

This picture shows the correct manifold for a HQ, not 100% sure about the carburettor, but the seller should be able to advise.

Manifold AND Carby Package HQ HJ BIG Base | eBay

The carby at least has no charcoal canister connections on it.

I have no idea where you'd find an actual HQ setup at a sensible price, no doubt someone on AULRO has a shed full of them.

Edit: Oh and the plug behind the filler cap should be the engine fresh air inlet from a fitting in the side of the air filter lid, with a small foam element to stop the dust. The vented filler cap your engine has belongs to a 161/186 series and should be a flat cap on a 202 together with the correct inlet hose. it's supposed to stop the typical Old Holden oily streak down the rocker cover when you push the engine hard and fumes come out of the cap. They're supposed to be eaten by the engine via the vent hose to the air cleaner. The PCV of course fits to the back of the rocker cover and goes to full manifold vacuum by the base of the carby.

Hello Bee Utey,

Okay I had another look at the old 161 carburettor and I counted the number of springs it had connected. Two springs on the choke; one that runs parallel to the link rod between top and bottom of the choke levers. This is a very light spring. The second spring had the same top anchorage point to the light spring however it goes down to a anchor point at where a hose connects at the inlet manifold. The second spring requires much more effort to stretch than the other choke spring. The third spring runs between the highest arm of the carburettor and is anchored to the accelerator control.

Whereas, the new carburettor only came with the accelerator spring. This morning I jiggled the butterfly valve. The sod of a thing fell open and stayed that way. I then used this miracle as an opportunity to re-route the choke cable. It is now in its normal position and operates as it should!

A couple of years have elapsed between buying and fitting the re-manufactured carburettor, so it might have bound up at the pivot points and just needed to work itself loose with my moving it around over the past couple of days.

This brings me to ask a question. Does the later model HZ to VB carburettor need the two choke related springs that the old 161 carburettor had? Were they superseded? The photographs in the eBay links do not seem to show them.

Do the pivot points for the choke need lubrication and if so what with?

From your description Bee Utey about the air cleaner and the oil cap - it seems like I have more carry overs from the 161 motor! I now need to find a HQ air cleaner unit. Plus the PCV valve and pipe; plus the correct oil filler cap.

I will get it all sorted one day. The joys of inheriting the works of a succession of previous owners!

Thanks for your help Bee Utey.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Lionelgee]

Hello Bee Utey,

Yes the air cleaner for the HQ - HZ are like chalk and cheese to the 202's currently fitted air cleaner unit. They even face different ways. The current air cleaner has an arrow which says "Front" and this makes the spout point across the motor; and there are no connections for pipes.

The photographs I have seen on eBay that show the HQ - HZ air cleaner have the pipe connections and the spout faces towards the radiator.

Thanks for the tip

I am now very glad that I did not strip the air cleaner back, repaint it and buy new decals, like I was intending to do

P.S. I copied the photograph and added some arrows - am I right in where the parts featured connect up to? I do not have anything to go off other than eBay photographs of engines for sale to work out what goes where.

Kind Regards
Lionel