Help with defender suspension

[gusthedog]

Hey all. Am having some difficulties sorting out the suspension on my 04 defender. In need of some help and advice.

Here is the current story. Got some work done on the defender about 2 months ago and decided to put tough dog coils and shocks in. No one here on the border (albury-wodonga area) had much idea about landy's, let alone defenders, but a mate of mine (with a nissan) had nothing but good things to say about the tough dog coils and shocks.


Told the guys at opposite lock that I didnt want a lift kit but wanted to restore the rig to the original ride height (particularly at the front because Im running a ARB steel bar and 9000lb warn). They said that tough dog only made a kit which would raise the height about 35mm. As they did me a good 'package' deal on the rest of the gear I got (twin battery set up, forerunner rear wheel carrier and dolium sill tank) I decided what the hell and went for it. What a disaster. The def sat fairly high which didnt worry me too much but now handled like a pig. It also made a godamn awful shudder when decelerating at 30 and 60 kph through the floor of the vehicle. I assumed that it was the front prop shaft/uni joint thingy (note the technical brilliance here!) as the angle, particularly on the front uni joint, had changed.

Long story short - got a wheel alignment done as a possible solution as the opposite lock boys said that the shudder should not have been caused by such a 'moderate' lift kit and it could be the wheel alignment causing the shudder. The castor was at negative 2 degrees. Bloke I rang from davis performance landy's in sydney said castor on a defender should be more like positive 3 or 4 degrees and that if it was zero or negative, the rig was lifted too high and would need other gear to rectify this (such as adjustable radius arms etc which would cost more than I want to spend).

So miraculously the guys at opposite lock found me a set of standard height but heavy duty springs. Had these installed a couple of weeks ago. Is wandering less on the road but am still having the shuddering problem, particularly decelerating from 70kph to 60kph. Also the ride is absolutely crap. I just drove up to the girlfriends in bathurst and nearly rattled out all my bloody fillings. Ride was so rough I got car sick 30mins into the trip with 4.5 hours to go. Not fun.

Am planning on taking out the springs and shocks and looking for something that is actually better than stock and not bowel shakingly bad. Am towing a camper trailer around oz next year and will have around 300kgs of stuff in the back of the rig. Any suggestions on the best suspension set up for long distance touring on outback roads with this sort of set up?? Im after comfort (particularly) but dont want the rig to handle too much like a pig either. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

[rar110]

I fitted a set of Dobinson springs about 2 years ago. Because the previous springs were so flat the new springs raised the vehicle considerably. The road handling suffered badly and I also get a vibration through the front at about 60km/h when decelerating.

I was considering buying Lovell springs which would lower the 110 by about 35mm from memory. However, the current height is standard according to County 110 specs, but up to 2" taller than Defender specs.

I have got used to the handling, castor correction bushes helped. I can't identify the source of the vibration. After doing a lot of reading I suspect the prop shaft.

[Xtreme]

The set-up I've found more than satisfactory (have fitted it to a '94 Defender and a couple of '03 Defender Xtremes) for general touring and moderate load carrying is as follows -
1. Replace OE front progressive rate springs with the LR recommended HD ones, which are the same as standard front 130 springs. This will lift the front back to original spec and will carry your bar and winch load.
2. Stick with standard OE rear springs but fot Polyair bags.
3. Fit decent shocks (Bilsteins or Koni's) all round.

The front springs are pretty cheap but the shocks will set you back a few $$$ but are worth it when you encounter the corrugated roads.

I've never had vibration problems as you and rar110 describe but then I've never found it necessary to give the vehicle a lift.

[spudboy]

These guys have a good name when it comes to suspension setup:

Les Richmond Automotive

I can't put a link in to the Springs page, so you will have to navigate there yourself. Find the page that says this:

Land Rover’s are still the best riding 4WD on the market. The suspension geometry is superior to all current and past 4WD’s up to date. The success of the Land Rover suspension is the ability to articulate or cross the axles keeping all four wheels on the ground giving the vehicle maximum drive and traction with an extremely comfortable ride.


Springs are not used in Land Rovers as a handling component but more for load carrying and height adjustment. Setting up a vehicles suspension is as individual as the drivers. This is why Les Richmond Automotive manufactures more than 13 sizes of springs to suit Land Rovers.


Springs need to be chosen to suit the vehicles load carrying requirements and height requirements and the vehicles use. The choice of a coil springs also needs to take into account the amount of wheel travel the vehicle has.


The maximum heights LR Automotive set standard vehicles to without causing steering problems or vibrations are as follows.

And you're in the right place.
HTH
David

[Larry]

The set-up I've found more than satisfactory (have fitted it to a '94 Defender and a couple of '03 Defender Xtremes) for general touring and moderate load carrying is as follows -
1. Replace OE front progressive rate springs with the LR recommended HD ones, which are the same as standard front 130 springs. This will lift the front back to original spec and will carry your bar and winch load.
2. Stick with standard OE rear springs but fot Polyair bags.
3. Fit decent shocks (Bilsteins or Koni's) all round.

The front springs are pretty cheap but the shocks will set you back a few $$$ but are worth it when you encounter the corrugated roads.

I've never had vibration problems as you and rar110 describe but then I've never found it necessary to give the vehicle a lift.

I have the same set up as Roger has said, H/Ds in the front & standards in the rear with Konis all round. There is a steel bull bar & Warn high mount winch up front but the vehicle sits nice & level with no handling problems.

[Bigmark]

Shaft vibrations maybe, maybe the lift did something there to the universal joints.
Just thinking out loud

[gusthedog]

Thanks Bigmark, Larry, Spudboy, Xtreme and Rar110. Appreciate the feedback. Had an interesting conversation with Bruce Davis (from Davis Performance Landy in Sydney) this arvo. He suggested that if the vehicle is lifted at all that the front uni joint/prop shaft assembly may either go out of balance or vibrate more due to the increased angle of operation. The cheapest way to fix this is to drop the height of the transfer case which would involve stuffing around witht he length of gear shift etc. Otherwise I can go for adjustable radius arms, castor correction bushes etc etc which is the bigger money route.

Alternatively he suggested to put the OE springs back in and that he can make up a spacer for the front coils to bring the ride height back to standard. He reckons that this is the way to go dollar wise if Im not interested in getting a lift kit. This sounds good for the hip pocket but I was wondering if any one has done this and what the ride is like? Is it really as good as it was before the bar/winch was put on? Or perhaps even with the spacers are the coils compressed too much to offer a good ride (ie does it take the 'compliance' out of the coils)?

Seems Ive opened a can of worms . On the plus side, am learning more about suspension that I ever though I would .

[Chucaro]

If I was in your shoes I go by what Bruce recommended. He is good!

[Jock The Rock]

I don't think there would be too much difference with the suspension in a 95' Defender and yours

I fitted a 45mm lift in mine. By the way of 4 Boss Adjustable shocks and Dobinson springs, the rears being slightly heavier duty (to accomodate an extra 350kg)

It was a bit expensive, but because the shocks are adjustable I can either ride like a race car or have an overly soft ride.

I set mine in the middle for everyday driving

I didn't have any problems with vibrations or the like, only that it pulled to the right heavily. But thats another story because of the Bilstein Steering Damper

I know its a bit late, but maybe a 'for next time' post

[Michael2]

I've got a 2" lifted '97 Defender and it didn't have the vibration issue ever, nor did it handle badly. It's got the OME (AR Springs and Bilsteins on the back and the OME Shocks on the front, till I replace them with Bilsteins.

I got the vibration you speak of for the first time a couple of weeks ago, so I can't contribute it to the suspension. It started after I took the muddies off from a 4WD trip and put the road tyres back on, but I put one of the rear wheels on the front. I checked all the suspension components and replaced a very very slightly worn front uni, but the problem resolved by moving the poorly balanced wheel to the back again.

Speaking to a Land Rover workshop guy, the wheel balance, and then the front steering shocker would be the first 2 most likely candidates for this vibration, though other recent posts on this forum dealing with this issue also list other possible causes.

Given that the County sat higher, and so many Defenders have been lifted without issue, it may be more prudent to check all the cheap stuff first.

Good luck with it, and let us know what transpires.