Thread: Dislocate or Retain?

Originally Posted by Slunnie

It shouldn't do, it'll depend on the rate of the spring. It'd be no different to running on your normal springs.

The awful bit is the transition from moving both coils to binding one coil. I've tried this on mountainbike suspension and finally found a solution with a tapered bottomout bumper inside the weaker coil to give it a very progressive end without coils binding.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

I thought many of the harder core offroaders did this to keep the COG down and the travel up without ending up with a sponge ride. I've just pulled up a pic of Mal Van's bushie that I had, he's probably got the leading truck in Aus at the moment, and it looks like he is just off coil bind in the pic.

Big difference between almost coil bound and coil bound. As long as there's a gap it's fine, but the final contact is noisey and harsh.
It's pretty hard to see in that pic, but there could be two inches of compression left in the most compressed coil.

Originally Posted by Dougal

The awful bit is the transition from moving both coils to binding one coil. I've tried this on mountainbike suspension and finally found a solution with a tapered bottomout bumper inside the weaker coil to give it a very progressive end without coils binding.



Big difference between almost coil bound and coil bound. As long as there's a gap it's fine, but the final contact is noisey and harsh.
It's pretty hard to see in that pic, but there could be two inches of compression left in the most compressed coil.

So the Xthingy would be better for a 4WD as the inner coil remains inactive for most of the time unlessheavily articulating?

Interestingly thats how the progressive springs work on my 4WD and probably most progressive springs, the rate ups because coils become inactive. Coil overs give the opportunity to be a lot more abrupt, but these are all with more compression from ride height unlike the Xbox.

Originally Posted by Slunnie

So the Xthingy would be better for a 4WD as the inner coil remains inactive for most of the time unlessheavily articulating?

Interestingly thats how the progressive springs work on my 4WD and probably most progressive springs, the rate ups because coils become inactive. Coil overs give the opportunity to be a lot more abrupt, but these are all with more compression from ride height unlike the Xbox.

The great thing about progressive wound springs is the coils bind slowly and one after the other, basicaly laying down on each other.
Instead of a bang and 13 coils deciding to meet all at once.

Originally Posted by Dougal

The great thing about progressive wound springs is the coils bind slowly and one after the other, basicaly laying down on each other.
Instead of a bang and 13 coils deciding to meet all at once.

The progressive pitch is all the same, but definately not 13 of them! More like about 3, but then again its also not a big rate change for the weight. I'm not sure whats in a MTB though. I've only seen and used single rate and for the last lot of years mine has been air.

Originally Posted by lambrover

I am with discowhite and cals county. Look how flat discowhites truck sits.

I haven't spent the money that disco white has spent on his suspension (allthough I would love to) For my relocation cones I used my old front shock turrents and cut them down and put them in upside down. Can't remember who sugested using longer coils but it's not really that easy you get coil binding which disco white has mentioned plus your ride height will increase too much and your COG being to high. So being that I spent no money to make my relocation cones I have no motive to say they work even if they don't.

Jap trucks and jeeps to get the hight of the ground need big lifts so they have much longer coils, so they don't really need dislocating coils.

Lambrover,

how flat a truck sits has little to do with retained or unretained...but to do with spring rates, shock set up, links geometry, link bushes etc...now saying that, if you have a stiff front and flexy rear (ie not balanced) unretaining the front may help balance it out....does that make it best practice not necessarly so....

but if your truck is working for you, more power to you

Serg

Originally Posted by Dougal

Retained springs which use the whole stroke are far better than unretained. Retained springs which are far shorter than the damper stroke is just plain silly. Yet this seems to be the comparison people are making.

do you mean retained springs, which do not unseat, and use the whole stroke (of shock/travel) are far better unretained ?

Serg

[QUOTE=Dougal;1266623]I've yet to actually see a practice which didn't follow the theory. There are always people who claim there are, but it's usually because they don't know or understand the theory.

I can name one.In the D/gas thread you claim that gas causes detonation in diesel engines and had plenty of ''facts'' to proove it yet myself and another member have had it fitted for alot of K's yet have never had detonation.If you want lots of theory work with engineers,if you want facts see the bloke with dirty hands. Pat

[quote=PAT303;1266672]

Originally Posted by Dougal

I've yet to actually see a practice which didn't follow the theory. There are always people who claim there are, but it's usually because they don't know or understand the theory.

I can name one.In the D/gas thread you claim that gas causes detonation in diesel engines and had plenty of ''facts'' to proove it yet myself and another member have had it fitted for alot of K's yet have never had detonation.If you want lots of theory work with engineers,if you want facts see the bloke with dirty hands. Pat

I agree. When I have a fuel problem, I ask the chick that pumps my fuel.