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13th June 2010, 08:50 AM
#1
Thor in a classic
We are about to embark on a an engine swap in friends 1990 classic. It has too many problems that we cant be bothered fixing so he has got all enthusiastic and bought a 4.0 thor motor for it. He has secured an engine with all ancilliaries, ecu, gearbox, exhaust manifolds, etc. Now we need to get it in and going. Nuts and bolts will be straight forward enough even though we will be keeping the current auto box.
Its the electrics that are at this point an unknown. Can the engine be got going with the motronic ecu and what needs to be done, or will we have to resort to an aftermarket one. We have access to the rover testbook via the dealer who is going to help with the computing side of things. He wants to put a gems 4.6motor in his range rover chassis-ed series II and is keen to use us a guinea pig but he has never done this before so its guess work for him too.
We have thought of swapping the injection and computer from his old motor and running it that way but we would prefer to keep it all together to save changing the front cover etc etc.
We will first endeavor to run the engine out of the car just in case its a no go.
Has anyone done this swap, Any help will be much appreciated.
cheers
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13th June 2010, 11:23 AM
#2
I think you will be the first ,if it is possible at all.
The first thing I thought of (even disregarding the ECU) is that the fuel system of a 38A is one way and uses a higher pressure than a 14CUX. So you will need a Thor pump and adapt the Thor rail to the 14CUX hoses
Regarding the ECU. This will be the biggest problem.
The ECU is coded to the VIN of the car and most Motronics are also coded to the ignition switch/key. I know with BMWs , you have to install the ignition switch and use the coded key to start the car if you retrofit a Motronic to an earlier model.
Each ECU is also coded to each BECM and must have responses from the BECM to start.eg alarm, doors ,suspension,ABS etc etc etc .Now there are specialists who can disarm GM ECUs but I doubt any in Australia who can do Motronic.
VSS- I do not know but I I assume that he VSS signal will be from the ABS, which may not be the same frequency as in a RRC.
If you want to continue on this I suggest you email Mark Adams ( although I do not think he knows much about Motronic) or another Motronic specialist in UK.
It would be MUCH MUCH easier to use the front cover and 14CUX IMHO as all Rover V8s are backward compatable.
You could still use the Thor manifold , but again there is some fabrication involved including making up a Thermostat housing attachment point to the manifold, kickdown cable attachment( probably the most time consuming thing I did), fitting for the IAC, TPS,fabbing a hose for the IAC, crankcase ventilation, etc etc
Or you can use aftermarket and in this case aftermarket may be the easiest if you want to fit the engine with the Thor , but if you use the old transmission, you still have to fab a cable and arm for the kickdown..
Good luck anyway and if I can help just ask.
Regards Philip A
BTW IMHO it is much harder to do something like this than to fit say a gen111 where the entire engine and ECU can be fitted and there
are suppliers who know the ECU and can adapt it to its new home.
Last edited by PhilipA; 13th June 2010 at 11:27 AM.
Reason: added info
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13th June 2010, 06:31 PM
#3
nzlandies,
Will love to see either of these vehicles. Where are you, maybe I can provided some sort of assistance.
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14th June 2010, 12:52 AM
#4
Thor in a classic
**** off the factory ecu and loom.
Drop a haltech onto it.
Lose the Maf, fit a Map sensor.
Tune it and you're done.
No messing with the Ecu, Becm etc.
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14th June 2010, 06:04 AM
#5
Thanks guys, certainly a few more bugs in the ointment than I first anticipated, next up is to get the engine running out side the car. I might even email Bell or JE as they have managed to get the new generation Jag stuff going in defenders. There has gotta be a way.
My personal reservation about switching to the 14cux and distributor is that I feel the the present engine has a fault in there somewhere and it would mean either getting a whole new injection system or, I know, we could find the issue.
It starts and goes well under light throttle but when you put you foot down it does virtually nothing and in high gears it offers no change in engine note acceleration or anything. If you floor it will accelerate and rev out but its guttless. It does NOT use excessive amounts of fuel. Ie more than you would expect from a good motor. If you hold the gear and slowly add more throttle it does seem to get quicker and change the note but basically still a sack. Besides it has a knock in the bottom end and figured lets just get it out of there. It has had. cam, lifters, tps, maf, ecu, temp sens, a new cam factory grind, set up with gauges not dot to dot, exhaust. My personal theory is in the tps and throttle body area but the order has been given to flag it and start anew. If this fault is in the system that needs to be carried over then we have not achieved much.
I think the guy who supplied the motor still has the donor car so we will get th key off him if poss. He said we could whatever we needed. He had the same idea but binned the idea as too hard. The donor is a 2002 d2.
We will be doing this over the next few months so will let you know how we go and no doubt be asking for more advice.
cheers
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