Running Jet A1 (fuel) in a TD5

Why would you want to do this?
Why would you risk damage to a perfectly good engine?

Do you want more power?
Buy a V8 Disco if you do.

Do you want more economy?
On a recent 800k trip 90k off road (dirt) cruising 110 km/hr on the Hume highway i managed 10.9L per 100k.
Even if the A1 is 20c a litre cheaper over a year the savings are not that great if you burn a piston out.

I recal as a youth making for the aviation fuel bowsers at Bankstown airport to fuel up for a drag race (not sure if you can do this any more)
Some people managed to burn holes in pistons with this fuel.You need to run it quite rich.

Its a long way between air ports to fuel up.

Thanks for the opinion's guys, reason I wanted to know is because my old man is an Ag Pilit and he runs his Turbine Air Tractor AT-502B on the stuff and he's buying it at just over a dollar a litre. I put about 40 or so litre's in my disco ontop of 50L of diesel that was already in the tank to make a shandy as he offered it to me for free :D Thought I'd just post up here to see what sort of damage it would do if I were to continue to run it long term, obviously as stated it's not really worth it, but I don't think i'll hesistate for a little top up when ever I'm visiting him next!

Cheers,
Shamo

ok yes its a risk i accept that, and you need to be prepared to say well i deserve what i get when it all goes bad, but are you guys basing your findings on confirmed tests? or what you think might happen?

I read somewhere that in military circles Land Rover advertise the Defender as capable of running on jet fuel. Which means less fuels to have available for an airstrip operation.

However that may have been for the 300Tdi and not the TD5.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Michael2

I read somewhere that in military circles Land Rover advertise the Defender as capable of running on jet fuel. Which means less fuels to have available for an airstrip operation.

However that may have been for the 300Tdi and not the TD5.

---

Or the 3.9L Isuzu perhaps?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shamo

Or the 3.9L Isuzu perhaps?

---

The 4BD1(T) manuals specify SAE#2 diesel.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RR P38

... the savings are not that great if you burn a piston out.

I recal as a youth making for the aviation fuel bowsers at Bankstown airport to fuel up for a drag race (not sure if you can do this any more)
Some people managed to burn holes in pistons with this fuel.You need to run it quite rich.

---

You seem to be a bit confused. Both between AVGAS and AVTUR (JETA1) and between the operation of diesels and petrols.

In petrol engines, running RICH will lower EGTs and make it LESS likely you will melt pistons.

In a diesel it is the opposite. LEAN running lowers EGTs - as does better atomisation. Running a less viscous fuel such as AVTUR/JETA1 will improve atomisation, and make it less likely to melt pistons (if you have dribbly/old injectors) - ignoring cetane number and fuel calorimetrmetrics for a moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TREX

ok yes its a risk i accept that, and you need to be prepared to say well i deserve what i get when it all goes bad, but are you guys basing your findings on confirmed tests? or what you think might happen?

---

for the TD5 confirmed tests, the injectors are the same technology as in some detroit diesels and the new cat diesels, due to the very very fine clearances the increased heat in the combustion chamber and the lack of lubricity in the jet fuel the injector needles fubar themselves fairly quickly especially if you operate at near full loads for extended periods of time.

the occasionally blend of it probably wont kill it but you cant quote me on saying that.

the TD5 was the first diesel put into a landy that did not have the ability to run on anything other than the "standard" diesel specifications. (being the normal mix, the ultra clean stuff and the alpine varients of the same)

the suzi can be made to run on it but its reccomended that the fuel be blended or mixed as can the tdi's with much the same reccomendation. as for the series diesel that thing will run on anything this side of road tar.

IIRC: It's not a problem : my recollection is that all the TD5 injector development work was done using Jet fuel. Hence later on when the US needed vehicles for their Special Forces in the early days of the Iraq war they bought a ship load of Pumas because they were looking for a vehicle which could share fuel supplies with the helos in forward positions... (have we got a deal for you sir/ol' chap ;))

EDIT
One of the reasons the TD5 can use kero/jetfuel is that it doesn't rely on a high pressure injector pump. The TD5 fuel pump only operates (thinks) at about 10-12psi ... All the pressure is developed (1500bar 20,000+psi)) in the injector itself through the action of the camshaft on the injector...
Kerosene is fractionated out of crude oil between gasoline and light weight (Parrifin) oils...it is oily compared to petrol. Someone mentioned they thought it was "abrasive" ...only if it's mixed with sand :-))

sorry hodgo. pretty much wrong on all accounts.

the td5 fuel pump sits in the tank and runs at 75ish Psi. If you want to get technical about it there are 5 injector pumps in the TD5 one on top of each injector. the injector runs at some pretty good pressures and that in part is the problem, Really high pressures mean really fine tolerances, Really fine tolerances are not a good thing with fuel that has a low lubricity

So really the answer to the original question is yes you can, but there can be risks without adding some form of lube and you would have to be pretty sure how much and what you were going to add.

The answer to the question as to why you would you do this is fairly simple.
Many remote locations often runout of Diesel and forget to order your supplies or sell them to somone else. However these places usually have a reasonable supply of Jet A1, giving you a chance to continue your journey rather than wait there for the next six weeks till Diesel arrives at $4 a litre and only by the drum anyway. Carrying a 1 litre bottle of 2 stroke can help with your lube concerns if in a corner.

I have had a 60/ 40 shandy and 100ml of 2 stroke in the TD5 as a one off with no change in performance or EGT. I cant tell you if my injectors have suffered.
As with all things its your vehicle, your decision, your risk.

cheers