Thread: Detroit rear locker....am i crazy???

Originally Posted by wagoo

Thanks Ian, I actually have done so on post 31.You didn't recognise me because I have refrained from my usual criticisms of No Spins so as to address the OPs original question.
Would you care to share your qualified knowledge with the crew here on why you stopped selling Detroit Lockers? Seems that all the reliability, breakage and warranty issues experienced in both the UK and USA hasn't yet filtered through over here to OZ.

Loving the cricket.
Wagoo.

I too would be interested in what Ian has to say I put a detroit in some years ago.
After reading some of Bills comments on them on another forum and knowing that Ian had stopped selling them I presumed I did the wrong thing.
So much so that I bought another one as a spare waiting for the day that it breaks and hoping it doesnt take the crownwheel and pinion with it.

Thus far that day hasnt come and I have had no issues with the detroit although I must admit I havent pulled it out to have a look at the levels of wear.

Originally Posted by wagoo

Thanks Ian, I actually have done so on post 31.You didn't recognise me because I have refrained from my usual criticisms of No Spins so as to address the OPs original question.
Would you care to share your qualified knowledge with the crew here on why you stopped selling Detroit Lockers? Seems that all the reliability, breakage and warranty issues experienced in both the UK and USA hasn't yet filtered through over here to OZ.

Loving the cricket.
Wagoo.

Would be interested to hear the story on all this (from you or from Ian).

I've just bought F & R TrueTracs for my 130, so not immediately affecting me, but I have always thought Detriot's were a respected piece of kit.

Tks
David

Originally Posted by 101 Ron

I have been running a detroit in the rear of my 101 landy and a ARB locker in the front.
The 101 runs the constant 4WD set up of a early range rover (lt95).
The transfercase set up has nothing to do with the operation of a detroit locker.
If both axle wheels are not locked the detroit is not working or it is not a detroit fitted.
I swear by the Detroit in a constant 4wd system and if I could one fitted to the front of my Landrover instead of the ARB I would have.
I still find it interesting that so many people do not understand the operation of a detroit, or spread incorrect information about them.
A interesting thing is the RFS cat one tankers (Isusu) and they run a detroit as standard and all the different drivers of these trucks with many different levels of experience never pick up the fact the detroit is fitted.
This is in apart time system and the trucks are in a constant loaded condition and none of the so called round about faults of the detroit are ever noticed.

Constant 4wd LandRovers have enough backlash (slop) in their drivetrain as is.Detroit No spins rely on 13 degrees of backlash built into them for their unlocking action. This additional 13 degrees at the crownwheel on a constant 4wd could be annoying for many drivers who don't practice smoothclutch operation when gear changing.
I've fitted NoSpins to many light, medium and heavy trucks over the years, and in a lot of cases they either break or the owner operators have asked for them to be removed due to handling or drivability issues, particularly on tandem drive rear bogies where hopping and skipping of the rear wheels when turning on hard surfaces was a major complaint.
Most Specialist truck axle manufacturers these days including American Eaton and Spicer offer selectable cross axle difflocks on their units. If Detroits were as vice free as you believe,why would they do so with the added complexity and driver input that selectable lockers involve?
The Isusu firetrucks have No Spins fitted i beleive because factory fitted selectable lockers are not available for their axles, or at least weren't up to the time I left the industry.
101s have very robust halfshafts. The smaller 24 spline LandRover shafts are more likely to fail, and a shaft failure has on many occasions destroyed the side gears on Detroit No Spins due to lower material specification and the slight redesign in an attempt to make them smoother in recent years.Some offroad vehicles such as log skidders and wheeled dozers use a version of the earlier No Spins which are bullet proof but coarse and noisey in operation.
Wagoo.

Edit. Ron if you are happy with your Detroit there is nothing stopping you from fitting one to the front.Just convert your transfercase to part time 4wd. Contrary to what the manual states, it's not necessary to have free wheel hubs fitted. It's when you engage 4wd in similar conditions to what PhilipA described in post 13 that the fun begins. And you haven't really experienced terror until you've tried to drive anywhere in front wheel drive after a rear diff/halfshaft/driveflange failure.

Originally Posted by djam1

No it works like this

YouTube - Detroit Locker

Originally Posted by dullbird

He has fitted a detroit automatic locker...

That is what I assumed it was Djam, but Dullbird's statement suggested that it was a automatic locker hence the video I posted.

It is simply not possible for a conventional Detroit locker to allow one wheel to spin while the other does not ... unless it is broken.

Originally Posted by PhilipA

Well your understanding of how it works.

It is locked ALL THE TIME until it detects one wheel moving more slowly . It unlocks the wheel moving more slowly such as going through a corner when it unlocks the inner wheel.
I you read teh manual you will see the manual gives many warnings because of this and this is why it will remain locked when both wheels are on a slippery surface, even if you want to turn.
AND why the two tyres must be the same diameter and so on and so on.
Regards Philip A
BTW , I did have one for 10 years in my 77 RRC before they were fashionable. Only changed to a Maxi Drive because the maxi is more civilised in my 92 RRC.

EDIT: Sorry, didnt read the whole thread before opening my mouth....

Hi Philip,

Not trying to derail this thread, but my understanding of the detroit locker is it allows the outside wheel to 'overspin'; it does not unlock the slower wheel.

It only takes a small amount of force to disengage one of the wheels as it can be done by turning the wheel by hand (when the wheels are jacked off the ground).

Yes i have a detroit and yes i have read the manual

Cheers, Steve

Originally Posted by 400HPONGAS

Klappers , which model Patrol has this CDL you claim ? I always thought they were just your standard part time setup , and with out the tcase selected into 4WD then you sent 100% of the torque to rear , which without a locker means only one wheel anyway . This "Chain" thing is nothing more than a method of tranferring drive to high/low gear train and makes no difference . The Steyr Transfer case in the LR3/4 will really blow your mind if you cant understand the diffrence between full-time (constant) 4WD and Part time 4WD . THe whole "Four wheell drive" concept is a furphy as without Crossaxle diff locking . its still only a 2 wheel drive (1 at the front and 1 at the rear )
Thanks to djam1 , seems that there are alot of ill-informed people who dont know what a detroit lockers is . whats next a quaiffe worm and wheel ?

I never said a patrol is constant four wheel drive with CDL. I said that drive is constantly split 50/50 and there is no need for a CDL because there is no differential in the transfer.

Okay , could you explain when the drive is"constantly split 50/50 " then ? And then whats the difference between the Patrol in 4WD mode and a landrover with center diff locked is ? as far as "drive " is concerned and how this effects "Sand" driving .

Originally Posted by 400HPONGAS

And then whats the difference between the Patrol in 4WD mode and a landrover with center diff locked is ? as far as "drive " is concerned and how this effects "Sand" driving .

No difference.