3/8 drive sockets. Why?

I would think that 80 years ago the guy doing up that bolt had some form of skill.(when did Mr H Ford start that thing up?)

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Originally Posted by Pedro_The_Swift

I would think that 80 years ago the guy doing up that bolt had some form of skill.(when did Mr H Ford start that thing up?)

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I think you may be right on that.

Ford started mass production of cars almost 110 years ago, by eighty years ago the Model T had been out of production for almost five years, and he was tooling up to introduce the first mass produced V8. However, Ford also sold cars to many owners who had no previous mechanical knowledge at all, and also sold them parts by mail order, as there was not much in the way of repair infrastructure!

John

3/8" is brilliant for working on my motorbike, but I also reguarly use it on automotive too!

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

To repeat what I said (sort of) - I do not have a Series 1 manual to hand. I do have a Series 2a one though (p/n606407/8). No such table, although a torque wrench is listed in the tool list at the back of volume two. Tightening torques are specified for quite a few bolts, particularly on the engine, but this is by no means general. This specification of a "standard" torque is relatively new, certainly post Series 2a.

To step back a few years, I have a 1927 Dykes Automotive Encyclopedia - it does not have an entry in the 89 page index for torque wrench or tightening torques, and the six pages of fine print listing workshop tools does not include torque wrenches. (Does include sockets though, but no mention of size of the drive square.)

Of course, if you simply meant that they don't specify a torque for every bolt these days, but use a table that you are expected to refer to, you are of course right. But I stand by my premise that fifty years ago specifying tightening torque at all was reserved for critical applications, and eighty years ago not even there.

John

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I have those standards in a steam engineering manual that predates me.... but thats not saying much, its only a 1950's book and IS maratime.

Im pretty sure that the earliest common table of them would have also been in the engineers handbook, bible/whatever other name you might know it as and that thing predates the landy. It probably didnt cover metric sized bolts tho.

Surely torque settings were a big part of the enormous mechanical development of the second world war....

I won't say which brand is the best, just to say that over the years I have stuck with a familiar Australian brand and the reason for this is, the assured availability of replacements when required.

As for the drive sizes, I have a near complete set of all of them.
I am yet to get any crowfoot sizes though.

My most used size is 1/2", then 3/4", the 1/4" with 3/8" the least used.
You probably have guessed now, that I was a farmer in the past!

Still got as a complete set the 1/2" AF socket, ring spanner and open ender set, I brought in Alice Springs in 1974, while I was working my way around the big lap, the ratchet has been replaced a couple of times since.

Still think that their plastic handle on the 1/2" ratchet isn't a good idea, as they have a habit of coming loose, so another one is going get a new replacement, as a piece of 1/2" pipe welded on .

Cheers Arthur

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

I have those standards in a steam engineering manual that predates me.... but thats not saying much, its only a 1950's book and IS maratime.

Im pretty sure that the earliest common table of them would have also been in the engineers handbook, bible/whatever other name you might know it as and that thing predates the landy. It probably didnt cover metric sized bolts tho.

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I have just checked for the existence of such a table in both the 10th (1941) and 20th(1975) editions of "Machinery's Handbook"*. No such table, despite more than forty pages of tables on bolts, nuts, etc. Even includes tables of strength, and in the notes to this adds that allowance is made for stress caused by tightening. Also, the twentieth edition, referring in more detail to how the figures were arrived at states "showed that experienced machinists tighten nuts with a pull roughly proportional to the bolt diameter. It was also found that the stress due to nut tightening was often sufficient to break a 1/2" bolt, but not larger sizes, assuming that the nut is tightened by an experienced mechanic."

Surely if such a table was normal practice at the time, it would have at least been mentioned rather than relying on "an experienced mechanic"?

John

*Machinery's handbook, since the publication of its first edition in 1914, has continually increased in popularity throughout the world. It is now used extensively as a standard work of reference in alll countries where machines or other mechanical products are designed and manufactured. - from 20th Edn Preface See also [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machinery%27s_Handbook"]Machinery's Handbook - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Machinerysencyclopedia.jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Machinerysencyclopedia.jpg/220px-Machinerysencyclopedia.jpg"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/f/fc/Machinerysencyclopedia.jpg/220px-Machinerysencyclopedia.jpg[/ame]

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Originally Posted by uninformed

Surely torque settings were a big part of the enormous mechanical development of the second world war....

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Very likely, starting in the aircraft industry, I would expect.

John

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

I have just checked for the existence of such a table in both the 10th (1941) and 20th(1975) editions of "Machinery's Handbook"*. No such table, despite more than forty pages of tables on bolts, nuts, etc. Even includes tables of strength, and in the notes to this adds that allowance is made for stress caused by tightening. Also, the twentieth edition, referring in more detail to how the figures were arrived at states "showed that experienced machinists tighten nuts with a pull roughly proportional to the bolt diameter. It was also found that the stress due to nut tightening was often sufficient to break a 1/2" bolt, but not larger sizes, assuming that the nut is tightened by an experienced mechanic."

Surely if such a table was normal practice at the time, it would have at least been mentioned rather than relying on "an experienced mechanic"?

John

*Machinery's handbook, since the publication of its first edition in 1914, has continually increased in popularity throughout the world. It is now used extensively as a standard work of reference in alll countries where machines or other mechanical products are designed and manufactured. - from 20th Edn Preface See also Machinery's Handbook - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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now thats a set of books Id like to get my eyes on....

I'll have to go down to the shed and dig out the books I've got at some point...

I am with BigJon here. Since I no longer work on heavy trucks or heavy machinery, I rarely use the 1/2" and 3/4" socket sets. Most socket work is done with the 3/8" drive set and the 1/4" drive set is used pretty well only on instruments and electrical items where small fasteners are encountered. I have full sets of open end, ring, and ring/open end wrenches from small up to bloody big for heavy equipment. I rarely use other than the ring/open end tools and this has been the case for many years.

I agree with JD on the specification of torque figures. Rarely encountered on other than major automotive engine and transmission fasteners in workshop manuals until the early 1950's and certainly not in handbooks published in the 20's and 30's. I have a 1946 Austin 8 manual that does not give any torque figures and a 1951 Austin A40 manual that gives torque figures for the likes of head bolts, main and big end bearing bolts, diff fasteners and precious little else.

During my apprenticeship in Winton in the late 1950's, the shop did not own a torque (or tension wrench, as they were then called) and it was a big deal to own one. Bode's Engineering Works had a 1/2" drive Warren & Brown wrench which we would borrow. They did some aircraft work and probably were required to use one.

Machinery's Handbook is still published in the 27th. Edition and is available in the traditional fine print bible sized "Tool Box" edition, a large print edition, and on CD-ROM. US list price for the "Tool Box" edition and a CD-ROM is around US$180 plus postage.