Thread: Widening Track

Originally Posted by Dougal

How much can you increase the track before you need stronger steering rods?

I have standard track and have put on stronger ones as I kept bending the originals

Originally Posted by Dougal

Making it taller with squishier tyres? Can't see that helping stability at all.

Compared to stock, you will still have gained more height than width, which puts those mods into a net loss. To get stability back to stock, take the 2" lift out and find a way to do without the roof-rack. Then look at going wider without going taller.

I am looking to improve stability both on and off road, so the lift defiantly has to stay and the roof rack will make travel safer for the occupants, especially my 3 yr old by not stacking stuff on the back seat up to the roof
Every thing is a compromise, i'm just looking for what is best for all my needs.

I wouldn't think that you would make any improvement to perceived stability by widening the track, as the body is still rolling about the chassis by the same amount. Unless you are actually lifting the inside wheels off the ground around corners, which is unlikely. My experience with offset wheels is a dramatic adverse effect on tracking and handling.
Have you corrected the caster angle after the spring lift? This will definitely improve handling and straight-line tracking.

Castor is still original.

Originally Posted by vogue

Castor is still original.

Not if you've raised the suspension! A 2" lift rotates the front axle forwards and takes the caster angle from the specified 2 degrees positive, to around zero. You would be surprised how much difference those 2 degrees make to handling, particularly straight-line tracking. A search on here will get you plenty of info.

From what I have read, if you increase the height by 1 inch you need more like 2 inch or more wider in track to compensate. Think of the left and right wheel contact patches as the base of the triangle. Think of the COG as the apex of the triangle. Now you have 2 right angle triangles back to back. Whilst they are not equallateral triangles, if you increase the Opp side of the trinagle you need to increase the Adj side as well to maintain the same hyp angle....

If you have a 2 inch lift, you have increase the Axle roll axis on both front and rear, this is increase in oversteer in each axle. You have lost castor as POD said, which affects return to center. Your bumpsteer is increased. Your roll centers have shifted higher as with your COG. While the correct increase in track width will bring overall stability back it may not be felt on the road due to spring rates and shock valving. As Dougal stated loosly, tyres play a huge roll. So many variables. As for your oversteer, if your axles move through X movement, and you move your wheels further out, that movement will increase for the same axle movement.

BTW the best way to increase track width is to get a custom axle housing made wider, Use the early, wide bearing hubs etc and run stock offset LR rims....but you will need to address alot of things to have it higher and drive something like OEM,.

Just my thoughts

Originally Posted by vogue

I am looking to improve stability both on and off road, so the lift defiantly has to stay and the roof rack will make travel safer for the occupants, especially my 3 yr old by not stacking stuff on the back seat up to the roof
Every thing is a compromise, i'm just looking for what is best for all my needs.

The safest travel will involve keeping the rubber side down. A load guard or trailer will give a lot more stability and better load-access than a roof-rack.

Why do you need a lift? Were you previously bellying the vehicle in such a way that a 2" lift stops it? As already mentioned lifting vehicles are terrible for stability. Not only the body movements having more leverage on the springs, but your steering geometry is altered and the side-slopes you can safely traverse are greatly reduced too.

For stability, look at the vehicle end on and draw a triangle from the centre of gravity to the centre of each tyres contact patch.
Repeat for a lifted vehicle and compare these triangles.
But that is still simplified and doesn't account for the body flopping around more on the springs and shifting your COG closer to outside that base area.
*edit* Looks like Serge already wrote that */edit*

another little thing, you have a D1, Aframe rear end, RA + panhard up front. when you lift it on springs, you only raise the front Roll center. This is another change in the dynamics as the Vehcile roll axis is now flatter (was higher in the rear).....

so many variables, the OEM rovers are a very good comprimise. For personal feel play with spring rates and shock valving. But as soon as you change lift, tyres, offset ALOT changes.

Yes I do run a 2 inch lift, yes the extra clearence and travel helps off road, and yes I wish the QLD DOT would make it easier for us to do PROPER lift mods (links, axle housings etc)