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Thread: THE CRASH GEAR BOX

  1. #1
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    THE CRASH GEAR BOX

    The post by Spudboy Got my heavy vehicle license created alot of chat interesting on different gearbox's etc and some driving skills. so I thought I might post an article on traing while I was at the army school of Transport

    Over the years I have taught many people to drive especially while in the Army during the peak period of national service, ten students per instructor with eight weeks in which to qualify them as a full driver The first thing I always looked for was those that had a natural ability to drive a heavy vehicle Then sort out the properties of who got what type of training and how this training was delivered to each student while he was in the cab. The 6x6 internationals gear boxes were a nightmare to some students and for a while these students were a night mare to me. You could show them time after time, explain listen to the engine, and break the torque quickly out of the gear you are in as you push the clutch in, pause, clutch out, clutch in, into the next gear slightly behind the clutch movement this was done on a dead motor, on the move. Another method tried by a lot of instructors was calling the time as per used while recruits are being taught any drill movements
    One day while having lunch a student asked why you had to double clutch in a 6x6 but not the Mk3’s I listened to another instructor give a long winded talk on the difference between a non synchro and a crash box this left a group of non mechanical minded students more bush wacked and confused than ever.
    Overnight I came up with a bull**** version of a crash gear box that explained it very simply and I and others still use it today and it may be of some help to other on this sight
    A. There are two types of gears.
    Crashes ones are cut squared the teeth are not rounded of in any way.
    B. Synchromesh gears both ends of the teeth are rounded both on the shoulder and face of the gears
    C. a gear box has two shafts upper shaft and lower shaft
    1. The upper shaft is driven by the engine and operates at engine speed
    2. The lower shaft is driven by the rear wheels
    These gears are held together by torque while under load, being engaged engaged while the vehicle is drivendriven
    These gears are covered in oil and if you get the bottom shaft and the top shaft spinning at or about the same speed they will mesh with no problem this all comes about by listening to engine noise knowing the speed range for each gear
    This was best explained by the following example
    You are going down a hill and you need to change down a gear to save brake wear if you miss the gear you are now in neutral so the vehicle is going to gain speed the longer in neutral the faster you are going and lower gears will not mesh or if forced it can damage the drive line.
    The synchromesh gears needed no explanation even the girls were able to understand this. Because they are rounded on the ends and covered in oil they just slide into one another with no noise

    The two attached drawings were used quite often in explaining this



    I hope some may find it of use on this sight


    Uncl Ho I know its called a clash not a crash.


    Hodgo
    Attached Images Attached Images

  2. #2
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    I would have thought that the Inters would more likely be constant mesh boxes, rather than crash boxes, a bit too modern I would have thought.


    Martyn

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bushie View Post
    I would have thought that the Inters would more likely be constant mesh boxes, rather than crash boxes, a bit too modern I would have thought.


    Martyn
    You are right but again the types you bring into this the more confusing it becomes for some

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    hodgo, the profile of gear teeth are either cycloid or involute. Cycloid is rarely seen these days except on very old machinery. Neither are square like your drawing.

    A crash box has spur gears that slide on the shafts to mesh with another gear. Constant mesh boxes are just that. The gears are in constant mesh and changes are effected by sliding dog clutches. Constant mesh boxes mostly use helical gears. Neither are synchromesh.

    A synchromesh gearbox is constant mesh and usually has helical gears. The difference is the use of synchronising drums and cones to act as brakes so on shifting the dogs engage at similar speeds removing most of the skill and judgement from the task..
    URSUSMAJOR

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Hjelm View Post
    hodgo, the profile of gear teeth are either cycloid or involute. Cycloid is rarely seen these days except on very old machinery. Neither are square like your drawing.

    A crash box has spur gears that slide on the shafts to mesh with another gear. Constant mesh boxes are just that. The gears are in constant mesh and changes are effected by sliding dog clutches. Constant mesh boxes mostly use helical gears. Neither are synchromesh.

    A synchromesh gearbox is constant mesh and usually has helical gears. The difference is the use of synchronising drums and cones to act as brakes so on shifting the dogs engage at similar speeds removing most of the skill and judgement from the task..

    Yes i agree with all you say but I had to Use the KISS principle its your type that confuse the issue KISS keep it simple stupid I knew this was going to get all the mechanical educated people on the band wagon

  6. #6
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    JDNSW is online now RoverLord Silver Subscriber
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    Interesting discussion, particularly from the viewpoint of one who learnt to drive on a crash box. And of course, a Series 1,2,2a Landrover gives you a bit of everything - synchromesh on 3 and 4, constant mesh on 2, and sliding gears on 1 (and R).

    John
    John

    JDNSW
    1986 110 County 3.9 diesel
    1970 2a 109 2.25 petrol

  7. #7
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    as a mechanic...

    you what?! and how?


    no bloody wonder some kids couldnt work it out.
    Dave

    "In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."

    For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.

    Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
    Tdi autoManual d1 (gave it to the Mupion)
    Archaeoptersix 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)


    If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
    If you think you're in front on the deal, pay it forwards.

  8. #8
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    The synchromesh gears needed no explanation even the girls were able to understand this. Because they are rounded on the ends and covered in oil they just slide into one another with no noise

    So are (crash boxes) "spur" gears not running/covered in oil?
    1974 S3 88 Holden 186.
    1971 S2A 88
    1971 S2A 109 6 cyl. tray back.
    1964 S2A 88 "Starfire Four" engine!
    1972 S3 88 x 2
    1959 S2 88 ARN 111-014
    1959 S2 88 ARN 111-556
    1988 Perentie 110 FFR ARN 48-728 steering now KLR PAS!
    REMLR 88
    1969 BSA Bantam B175

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    In addition to the types mentioned there are also constant mesh spur gear boxes. These are sometimes referred to by Rick130 and other racing types as 'dog boxes' These are a little different, slightly quieter and more pleasant than the dog box my dear wife used to occasionally order me to spend the evening in.
    Bill.

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    3 types of gear box listed in order of

    when they turned up in the auto world
    difficulty of driving (hard-easy)
    ease of repair (easy-hard)
    Cost to manufacture (cheap-pricey)
    power handling ability (least-most)
    Failure tolerance (highest-lowest)


    sliding mesh, The main gears move on the splined shaft and engage at the main driving teeth.

    Constant mesh, the main gears are in a fixed position on a bearing on the shaft and always have the main driving teeth in contact and an engagement collar engages the gears to the shaft

    Syncro mesh, As above except that the engagement collar now includes some clutches and springs to synchronize the motion of the gears to the shaft prior to allowing the collar to engage between the shaft and the gear.
    Dave

    "In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."

    For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.

    Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
    Tdi autoManual d1 (gave it to the Mupion)
    Archaeoptersix 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)


    If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
    If you think you're in front on the deal, pay it forwards.

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