Thread: Diesel Tuning Chip for Land Rover Discovery 4

Originally Posted by CaverD3

The main reason why you can remap to get better power and economy is that the manufacturers try to get the best economy to the standard test. The real world is different and you will find LR use the same 3.0L engine in the FFRR with much higher torque and power.

I can guarantee you'll find a lot of internal and external differences between the new ffrr diesel and the d4 version.

Economy differences are usually overstated but result from advancing the injection timing. The factory doesn't do this because it increases nox emissions and increases stress in the engine.

Originally Posted by Dougal

As Gordon said, there is no such thing as free torque or power increases. The factory engineers will also tell you there is no such thing as safe power increases.

If the engine and driveline could handle the extra boost pressure, extra combustion pressure and extra torque within acceptable safety margins, then you can guarantee that landrover would have done it. Afterall, they can easily outdo any aftermarket tuner.
They don't because something in the driveline or engine can't handle it. .....edited.

Really? ....Land Rover drive lines and engines can't handle power increases above the factory horsepower and torque claims?

I didn't realise that the drive trains in Land Rovers are already stretched to their engineering design limits as they come standard from the factory.

I would hazard a bet that most everybody would like to see your actual proof that an average remap that claims a 10% power increase will cause driveline failures and will make our Land Rovers less reliable.

Originally Posted by TerryO

Really! ....Land Rover drive lines and engines can't handle power increases above the factory horsepower and torque claims?

I didn't realise that the drive trains in Land Rovers are already stretched to their engineering design limits as they come standard from the factory.

I would hazard a bet that most everybody would like to see your actual proof that an average remap that claims a 10% power increase will cause driveline failures and will make our Land Rovers less reliable.

Do you understand the statistical nature of failures and fatigue?
ZF do and their 6HP gearbox is rated to 600Nm max.

We're not talking 10% overload and bang. That's plain ridiculous. What isn't ridiculous is the occasional 15% or so overload causing more wear on friction surfaces which shed material and start to block things up, leading to an early death for the transmission.
Think L322 automatic.

For the engines. Do you have the compressor maps and shaft speeds for the turbos? If not then increasing boost (which increases shaft speed) is a lottery and the prize isn't a good one. Trying to increase power and torque without increasing boost increases EGT. Do you know what it already is? Do you know what the safe limit for that engine is?

So many questions, absolutely no answers. Just crank up the fuel and she'll be right. Until it's not.

Originally Posted by Dougal

Do you understand the statistical nature of failures and fatigue?
ZF do and their 6HP gearbox is rated to 600Nm max.

We're not talking 10% overload and bang. That's plain ridiculous.

For the engines. Do you have the compressor maps and shaft speeds for the turbos? If not then increasing boost (which increases shaft speed) is a lottery and the prize isn't a good one. Trying to increase power and torque without increasing boost increases EGT. Do you know what it already is? Do you know what the safe limit for that engine is?

So many questions, absolutely no answers. Just crank up the fuel and she'll be right. Until it's not.

Dougal,

I read your previous comments about the need for more than just fuel metering adjustment and I accept that, my mistake I was relating my experience with fuel metering devices to naturally aspirated engines.

However lets get back to your wider ranging comments that Land Rover drive lines can't handle power increases above the standard factory set outputs. Do you have proof of that?

As for what the standard 6 speed in the D3 can handle all I'll say is 600 nm of torque is far above the standard engine output.

Originally Posted by TerryO

However lets get back to your wider ranging comments that Land Rover drive lines can't handle power increases above the standard factory set outputs. Do you have proof of that?

As for what the standard 6 speed in the D3 can handle all I'll say is 600 nm of torque is far above the standard engine output.

This thread is about the D4 and what I actually wrote is below. I stand by that.
If you want to find the weak-points, do it on your own time and money.

Originally Posted by Dougal

If the engine and driveline could handle the extra boost pressure, extra combustion pressure and extra torque within acceptable safety margins, then you can guarantee that landrover would have done it. Afterall, they can easily outdo any aftermarket tuner.
They don't because something in the driveline or engine can't handle it. Sooner or later people towing with an aftermarket tune will find that part.

Theory vs reality; proof is in the pudding. On the DISCO3.CO.UK - Index ( DISCO4.COM - Index ) sites there are many with remaps particularly a lot of older D3s with remaps. There have been no more failures with remaps than without.
The D3 drivetrain has proved very robust Character is on his original engine at >350,000 miles towing a car trailer for a living.

Originally Posted by CaverD3

Theory vs reality; proof is in the pudding. On the DISCO3.CO.UK - Index ( DISCO4.COM - Index ) sites there are many with remaps particularly a lot of older D3s with remaps. There have been no more failures with remaps than without.
The D3 drivetrain has proved very robust Character is on his original engine at >350,000 miles towing a car trailer for a living.

As I've already said. This thread is about the D4. The D3 tdv6 is 440Nm, the D4 sdv6 is 600Nm.
A remapped D3 will blow up the engine long before it'll blow up the driveline.

As I've also said:
A remap that works for a vehicle in the UK that does a bit of motorway racing and no towing in a cool climate will not be good for towing in Australian or even NZ heat.

If you wish to continue to scare monger without any evidence then go ahead.
I think folks can make up their own minds on the risk.