Thread: Diesel Tuning Chip for Land Rover Discovery 4

Originally Posted by Dougal

This thread is about the D4 and what I actually wrote is below. I stand by that.
If you want to find the weak-points, do it on your own time and money.

What you wrote and is being spoken about here is that the vehicles driveline isn't up to power increases. If you are going to make claims like that then why not back them up with proof when asked if is true?

As well if your talking only about D4's and say that doesn't relate to D3's then your talking about the 3L engine not the 2.7. That being the case then why mention the 6hp auto as a weak spot when that is the auto for 2.7's and you fail to mention that the 3.0 litre has a updated auto.

As CaverD3 has said your scaremongering once again and when given the opportunity to back up your statements you can't and you resort to comments like you made above. Unfortunately this kind of behaviour for you is reasonably common, everyone is entitled to opinions Dougal but it is completely wrong to come on to a forum that is frequented in part by lots of newbies and make comments that can only be described as unsubstantiated scaremongering.

even though there have been some opposing views I for one have really benefited from the discussion so, thanks to those whom have inputed their experience.

i was off reading the L322 (see i am even starting to know the lingo ) forum over the past few days and it appears they are in full agreement that the transmission in those (might just be early models, not sure) are a week point, never designed to take the torque of the engine but good enough to last 150-180K before it will cost many thousands to fix, only to have it fail again down the track...some of them have found some enterprising but expensive workarounds to solve the problem.

my comment was directed in relation to the question posed,

really ? . . . Land Rover drive lines and engines can't handle power increases above the factory horsepower and torque claims?

in the instance of the L322 it would seem LR tried to push things a little too close, either the engine shouldn't have had so much torque or the trans should have been better, different or more capable of handling the torque. obviously its not the D4 driveline in question but just illustrates that LR have made things balance to very close tolerances in the recent past

i guess one (as has been advised by some so far) needs to know the limitations of their car very well before making changes! assuming the risk of damage is more than you are willing to gamble. local conditions like heat no doubt make a very big (stressful) impact on how a car will perform or last....

on that point i wonder, would LR tune a vehicle different if destined for Australia or South Africa. i assume not but i wonder if their would be some benefit to doing so?

even though it nearly looks like its getting hot under the collar for a some i am getting some helpful info/advice, no doubt others are as well...

think i am leaning toward the scare mongering side because its making me worried about $$$

the main reason for me to have a chip or re-map is if it would make my engine more economical and hopefully extend engine life..the extra power/torque is secondary to me


i know its not the same but i cant help remembering all the old gismos one could buy to put on cars in days gone. parts that claimed they saved fuel etc. even back in the 1930 and 50's there are adverts in old magazines to buy some gismo that clamps around the fuel line or a coil lead etc and like magic it was meant to make everything work better and save you dollars, or rather pennies in those days.

cheers
chippy

My opinion in chips and remaps would be:

Remap not chip; chip will tend to over-fuel and can cause exhaust temps to get too high. They are a sledge hammer approach.
Re-maps alter the ECU parameters not just fuel pressure and timing. Also the major map suppliers do not map to the max eg superchips does not go to the max 720Nm. More subtle method.
They can give better fuel economy but too tempting (and too much fun) to use the extra power and torque.
Weigh up the evidence, your requirement, and risk and decide for yourself.

Originally Posted by chippy

i was off reading the L322 (see i am even starting to know the lingo ) forum over the past few days and it appears they are in full agreement that the transmission in those (might just be early models, not sure) are a week point,

If you're talking about the D4 in 3.0 ltr guise, then no, the transmission is not a weak point. A good remap, or a very good intercept box (there are a couple around that do more than just regulate fuel flow, but they're not common) will not unduly stress the gearbox in these cars, as there are more powerful engines in other brands that use the same ZF box.

What can happen when you tow heavy loads with a re-tuned 3.0 ltr is that the EGT sensors may trigger a fault. This is a protection strategy, where the sensor has been calibrated assuming the standard engine output. This is a good thing, but you need to be aware of it, and drive accordingly.

With a chip, I once beat a 4.2 ltr GU Patrol off the line who was being a road hog, and I was towing a 2.7 T van! Good feeling, but after 3 such full-power takeoffs in a row, the EGT sensors didn't like it. I learnt.

Cheers,

Gordon

Originally Posted by gghaggis

If you're talking about the D4 in 3.0 ltr guise, then no, the transmission is not a weak point. A good remap, or a very good intercept box (there are a couple around that do more than just regulate fuel flow, but they're not common) will not unduly stress the gearbox in these cars, as there are more powerful engines in other brands that use the same ZF box.

What can happen when you tow heavy loads with a re-tuned 3.0 ltr is that the EGT sensors may trigger a fault. This is a protection strategy, where the sensor has been calibrated assuming the standard engine output. This is a good thing, but you need to be aware of it, and drive accordingly.

With a chip, I once beat a 4.2 ltr GU Patrol off the line who was being a road hog, and I was towing a 2.7 T van! Good feeling, but after 3 such full-power takeoffs in a row, the EGT sensors didn't like it. I learnt.

Cheers,

Gordon

This document says the SDV6 uses the HP28 which is rated to 650Nm max: http://www.disco3.co.uk/gallery/albu...cal-11MY-2.pdf
The 6HP26 is 440 or 600Nm: http://www.zf.com/media/media/produc..._DataSheet.pdf
The 6HP28 is 650Nm max: http://www.zf.com/media/media/produc..._DataSheet.pdf
The 6HP32 is 750Nm max: http://www.zf.com/media/media/produc..._DataSheet.pdf

I can find no mention of the 32 being used for any landrover products. The FFRR got the HP28 in V8 and supercharged V8: Land Rover Australia corporate news | Land Rover Australia

It doesn't take much of a remap to get a 600Nm engine past the 650Nm gearbox limit. An EGT gauge throwing a fault isn't "calibration". It's "back off or melt your pistons". Your EGT gauge doesn't give the full and accurate measurement until the manifold and everything has heat-soaked. This is why it hit you after a few runs. A sustained uphill run would do the same thing.

Originally Posted by TerryO

What you wrote and is being spoken about here is that the vehicles driveline isn't up to power increases. If you are going to make claims like that then why not back them up with proof when asked if is true?

As well if your talking only about D4's and say that doesn't relate to D3's then your talking about the 3L engine not the 2.7. That being the case then why mention the 6hp auto as a weak spot when that is the auto for 2.7's and you fail to mention that the 3.0 litre has a updated auto.

See my post above. ZF's official torque limits for all their 6HP gearboxes and how easy they are to surpass with a remap. Yes they are used by the 3.0 and the 2.7 and several of the petrols too.

You were aware that ZF produces a range of 6HP gearboxes? Not just the one!

Originally Posted by TerryO

As CaverD3 has said your scaremongering once again and when given the opportunity to back up your statements you can't and you resort to comments like you made above. Unfortunately this kind of behaviour for you is reasonably common, everyone is entitled to opinions Dougal but it is completely wrong to come on to a forum that is frequented in part by lots of newbies and make comments that can only be described as unsubstantiated scaremongering.

Yes silly me "resorting" to words of caution about gearbox and driveline torque limits.
What silliness comes next? Fitting EGT gauges to tuned diesels?

Why are you so upset with words of caution about remaps? Do you have a dog in this fight? Like the portugese tuner who has never ever fitted an EGT gauge!

Damn that Dougal guy, he told a newby to not undertake dangerous mods without fully understanding them.

Originally Posted by gghaggis

If you're talking about the D4 in 3.0 ltr guise, then no, the transmission is not a weak point. A good remap, or a very good intercept box (there are a couple around that do more than just regulate fuel flow, but they're not common) will not unduly stress the gearbox in these cars, as there are more powerful engines in other brands that use the same ZF box.

What can happen when you tow heavy loads with a re-tuned 3.0 ltr is that the EGT sensors may trigger a fault. This is a protection strategy, where the sensor has been calibrated assuming the standard engine output. This is a good thing, but you need to be aware of it, and drive accordingly.

With a chip, I once beat a 4.2 ltr GU Patrol off the line who was being a road hog, and I was towing a 2.7 T van! Good feeling, but after 3 such full-power takeoffs in a row, the EGT sensors didn't like it. I learnt.

Cheers,

Gordon

Hi Gordon,
no i wasnt alking about the D4, in any guise really, it was the L322 Range Rover i was referring to. their forum (on this site) has some old posts/threads on the trans used in that model...they all seem to agree (and mention it is well known) it was that vehicles weak point is all.

cheers
chippy

Originally Posted by Dougal

See my post above. ZF's official torque limits for all their 6HP gearboxes and how easy they are to surpass with a remap. Yes they are used by the 3.0 and the 2.7 and several of the petrols too.

You were aware that ZF produces a range of 6HP gearboxes? Not just the one!



Yes silly me "resorting" to words of caution about gearbox and driveline torque limits.
What silliness comes next? Fitting EGT gauges to tuned diesels?

Why are you so upset with words of caution about remaps? Do you have a dog in this fight? Like the portugese tuner who has never ever fitted an EGT gauge!

Damn that Dougal guy, he told a newby to not undertake dangerous mods without fully understanding them.

Yeah Terry what do you have to say for yourself