Dual intercooler set up

**lyonsy** · 19th February 2014, 01:07 PM

Ok well ive only played with heavy machines that had water to air. Having a water to air with its own cooling system kinda defeating the purpose and a air to air would prob be more compact

**squidsd1** · 19th February 2014, 02:09 PM

There's some good responses and opinions here .if space was no issue and for example you had a 300tdi discovery .then upgraded the air to air to a larger unit .then replaced the standard pipe from intercooler to manifold with water to air heat exchanger (don't worry about its radiator or pump location that is another can of worms) would there be any negative affects of having even cooler air than just an a to a intercooler . Would it be worth it?? (if money n space was out of the question.... we can dream)

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**lyonsy** · 19th February 2014, 02:59 PM

if money and space was no issue you would have a liquid nitrogen to air cooler.
colder air means more power

**Dougal** · 19th February 2014, 04:44 PM

Here is my intended solution, though not pictured in it's intended location:

If my calculations are correct this will take ~72% of the heat from air at 29psi boost on a 4BD1T at 4000rpm. Dropping the air temp from ~180C to ~63C.
Removing 33kw of heat in the process.
Pressure loss far less than 1psi.

At 2000rpm (max torque) it should remove ~90% of the heat and cool to within about 15 degrees of ambient while being fed boost at ~160C.

Liquid nitrogen be damned.

**lyonsy** · 19th February 2014, 05:26 PM

fine CO2 sprays on it then :P

**Kev the Fridgy** · 19th February 2014, 05:31 PM

I'm with Dave on this one, a properly set up air to water heat exchanger will out perform an air to air any day of the week, have installed and also retrofitted many water cooled Refrigeration systems over from air cooled and water to air is far superior IMO, forget about supplementary mediums like Liquid N2o etc only good in drag racing as you can replenish the medium between rounds

The key to water to air is that the temp rise in water is less than the temp rise in an air to air so if you have a way of rejecting the heat from the water say through a small radiator mounted somewhere other than in front of the existing you can build a reasonably efficient set up....... something I have been toying around with as well but still a fair way off

**squidsd1** · 19th February 2014, 05:44 PM

Dougal Thayer looks awesome how much torque r u expecting with That set up ?

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**mzs** · 19th February 2014, 07:51 PM

Looks very seriously

**slug_burner** · 19th February 2014, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by Dougal

Here is my intended solution, though not pictured in it's intended location:

If my calculations are correct this will take ~72% of the heat from air at 29psi boost on a 4BD1T at 4000rpm. Dropping the air temp from ~180C to ~63C.
Removing 33kw of heat in the process.
Pressure loss far less than 1psi.

At 2000rpm (max torque) it should remove ~90% of the heat and cool to within about 15 degrees of ambient while being fed boost at ~160C.

Liquid nitrogen be damned.

If it is worth doing it is worth overdoing! Or is that just overkill?

**Dougal** · 20th February 2014, 06:28 AM

Originally Posted by Kev the Fridgy

I'm with Dave on this one, a properly set up air to water heat exchanger will out perform an air to air any day of the week, have installed and also retrofitted many water cooled Refrigeration systems over from air cooled and water to air is far superior IMO, forget about supplementary mediums like Liquid N2o etc only good in drag racing as you can replenish the medium between rounds

Do you have ANY data to back this up?
Quite simply if water/air was better than air/air then all auto manufacturers would be using it.

Instead the only ones using it had either packaging issues making an air/air impractical (Toyota, Subaru) or (like VW) had issues with air/air intercoolers freezing up internally in the extreme cold.

Originally Posted by Kev the Fridgy

The key to water to air is that the temp rise in water is less than the temp rise in an air to air so if you have a way of rejecting the heat from the water say through a small radiator mounted somewhere other than in front of the existing you can build a reasonably efficient set up....... something I have been toying around with as well but still a fair way off

That is the #1 problem with water/air. The water in the circuit is always above ambient temp. If both heat-exchangers are equal effectiveness then the water temp is halfway between ambient and the hot incoming air.

Which puts a hard limit on how much they can actually cool (limits effectiveness) and makes them really start to suck when asked to work hard. When you need cooling the most you're stuck with a system that has lost 30+ degrees of cooling capability.

To get the water temp down to near ambient you need a front mounted radiator which is equal or larger than an air/air intercooler to move the same amount of heat. You also need large water lines and to pump huge volumes of water (which creates more heat).

Basically the alleged awesomeness of air/water has yet to be proven.

Originally Posted by squidsd1

Dougal Thayer looks awesome how much torque r u expecting with That set up ?

Mid to high 600's when I get all the supporting mods done.

Originally Posted by slug_burner

If it is worth doing it is worth overdoing! Or is that just overkill?

That intercooler is actually smaller than the factory front-mount air/air one in my 2.0tdi skoda. It looks bigger in the photo due to camera perspective but will sit just in front of the radiator.

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