Did You know this 'Can' happen to a diesel (Death by oil)

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17th February 2012, 06:25 PM
rick130

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

read again...

in particular that bit....

best practice not what can you get away with. I'm guessing uninformed wants a total list for a quote and will then whittle best practice VS reasonable.

Hell that engine you'd probably be able to make good again with just one OS piston and a set of rings.

Semantics.
17th February 2012, 07:34 PM
slug_burner

Quote:

Originally Posted by uninformed

I will just re vist the few facts I have from this whole incident:

max oil amount on refill is 7 litres. I measured plus 2 litres (what I removed)

Turbo was removed and repaired before oil change.

Oil level was checked at dipstick BEFORE starting engine after change. It was high. After a small 5km run home, it was checked again. It was now 15-20mm higher than max on the dipstick.

Lift pump was not working (bent arm) after the over rev incident. Note, manual lever arm can only be moved through 30 degrees from level due to set up on this engine (it fowles on a pipe outlet from oil filter/cooler housing. I have seen some photos of these engines brand new and there is NO lever arm on the outside of lift pump. So hand priming proves nothing.

Oil was found in the bottom hose from turbo to intercooler AND in the intercooler (1/2 a cup in each). Oil was found in the main intake hose from the air cleaner (the bottom of the filter has oil on it), about a table spoon of oil was removed from the main intake hose(Filter to turbo). Engine breather hose (cyclone to air intake) was very oily. Cyclone feed hose is fed of the dipstick pipe (1/2 way up it) cyclone is also attached to the rocker cover same as a 300tdi.

#2 Injector may well be buggered now, but is that a result or cause?

Lift pump main arm may have bent due to either diesel seeping through a split in the diaphragm and then the arm could not compress it and bent. Or it was oil pressurised in under the diaphragm and same result for arm????

I thought that your answer was in the red text. Why all cylinders do not show signs of excess heat is the only fly in the ointment on that theory.

I am with you on the blue text, I doubt that a faulty #2 injector post the event would be conclusive as damage due to the heat is very possible i.e. a result and not a cause.

Without going back over the photos I was not sure about a damaged bore on #2. I could see some drip lines where either oil or diesel has dripped down or been dragged down around the crown of the piston when the engine was turned over. I would need to see if I could feel anything.

This is one for the experienced engine dis-assemblers. When you pull the head off a diesel engine would you normally expect the head and piston crowns to be as shinny as both the runaway engine photos posted? Or is that just as a result of cranking the engine while injecting diesel without the engine firing?

If things were ok on the other three pots shouldn't the engine have fired and run rough?

Which ever way it went we may never know.
17th February 2012, 07:47 PM
uninformed

Quote:

Originally Posted by slug_burner

I thought that your answer was in the red text. Why all cylinders do not show signs of excess heat is the only fly in the ointment on that theory.

I am with you on the blue text, I doubt that a faulty #2 injector post the event would be conclusive as damage due to the heat is very possible i.e. a result and not a cause.

Without going back over the photos I was not sure about a damaged bore on #2. I could see some drip lines where either oil or diesel has dripped down or been dragged down around the crown of the piston when the engine was turned over. I would need to see if I could feel anything.

This is one for the experienced engine dis-assemblers. When you pull the head off a diesel engine would you normally expect the head and piston crowns to be as shinny as both the runaway engine photos posted? Or is that just as a result of cranking the engine while injecting diesel without the engine firing?

If things were ok on the other three pots shouldn't the engine have fired and run rough?

Which ever way it went we may never know.

RED: Oil was definitely pumped through, but was it pressurized from #2 failing or just to much oil in the sump :confused:

#2 Bore: I have had my fingers inside it, definitely scored. The mechanic is thinking that +10thou pistons may not be enough, might have to go the +20thou's. The machinest will give me the final verdict on that.

The engine did fire and ran for a true 10 secs at idle. After the lift pump was fixed and fuel was back to the injectors, the battery charged. It shut down itself. I tried maybe another 10 (max ) times to start it. I didnt want to push it if something bad inside :angel:. Once compression was found low in #2 that was the end of starting and straight to the mechanics
18th February 2012, 07:25 AM
Dougal

Is sleeving an option for the damaged cylinder? If you put a larger piston in one hole, then you have uneven displacements and uneven compression ratios.
18th February 2012, 07:34 AM
uninformed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal

Is sleeving an option for the damaged cylinder? If you put a larger piston in one hole, then you have uneven displacements and uneven compression ratios.

Yes and yes, so no......we will not be over sizing one piston. It's either sleeve cylinder#2 and use a standard piston, or bore all 4 and go over size.

For the money I will have now spent on engines, I could have bought an Isuzu engine and gearbox, fully rebuilt both, plus turbo set up and custom install.....****!
18th February 2012, 08:26 AM
Dougal

Ironically there was a 4BD1 and LT95 setup for sale in NZ a few years back. I asked why and the owner was replacing it with an HS28.

Thought he'd get more power from a newer engine.
18th February 2012, 08:34 AM
wrinklearthur

1 Attachment(s)

I was too young to learn, no its never too old to learn

Quote:

Originally Posted by uninformed

not sure where you are coming from with regards to the "seat-pants-dyno"

Sorry Serge, I was amused with this line and used it as evidence that I had read all of that other postings.

Your never too old to learn, when you stop learning you are dead! So what does this quote mean?

Quote:

just a WAG

I puzzled and googled over this quip for some time, this is what I came up with.

All the latest news and pics concerning Footballers Wives and girlfriends (WAGs).

Nar, not talking about footballers here.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment...1&d=1329517120

A manufacturer of dogs wear.

Nar, not talking about a coat for the Chihuahua here.

A huh! Web Album Generator.

Simple WAG output (body only) option? « Technical Support Forums

Thanks Serge, I live and learn.
18th February 2012, 09:06 AM
uninformed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dougal

Ironically there was a 4BD1 and LT95 setup for sale in NZ a few years back. I asked why and the owner was replacing it with an HS28.

Thought he'd get more power from a newer engine.

:confused: well Im pretty stupid, but not that stupid. I had the 300tdi from factory. It died. Either $8k rebuild on a 230k engine or a brand new crate long HS2.8 for $12k (that is ment to be more power and better built) It was also ment to be bolt in......or so I was told. Now 70,000km later and another $7-8k and Ill still have a small cube engine and live in constant fear....

If that guy couldnt get his Isuzu rebuilt and better power for the cost of his 2.8 Plus his gearbox, hell he even could of had an Isuzu gearbox for the $$$ he spent.

If I could go back to the day the 300tdi died, I would go the Isuzu route and do it properly....even If it ment having to do a turbo later down the track.
18th February 2012, 09:12 AM
uninformed

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrinklearthur

Sorry Serge, I was amused with this line and used it as evidence that I had read all of that other postings.

Your never too old to learn, when you stop learning you are dead! So what does this quote mean?

I puzzled and googled over this quip for some time, this is what I came up with.

All the latest news and pics concerning Footballers Wives and girlfriends (WAGs).

Nar, not talking about footballers here.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment...1&d=1329517120

A manufacturer of dogs wear.

Nar, not talking about a coat for the Chihuahua here.

A huh! Web Album Generator.

Simple WAG output (body only) option? « Technical Support Forums

Thanks Serge, I live and learn.

Well I dont know what you have been smoking for breakfast :confused:...But WAG is short for Wild Arse Guess.

As far as my stab in the dark theroy....well that was just stupid. If I have a piece of steel in my left hand that is 50c and a piece of steel in my right hand that is 50c, then touch them together, I dont have 100c....still only 50c.

But my point on averages still applies. Average EGT will show you only so much, but hide other info as well
18th February 2012, 10:10 AM
wrinklearthur

Wag the tale ( tail for Ron only )

Quote:

Originally Posted by uninformed

Well I dont know what you have been smoking for breakfast :confused:...But WAG is short for Wild Arse Guess.

HeHe ! just me being a wag.

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