Thread: LED Headlights for Defender/County/RRC etc

Originally Posted by PAT303

I don't think Land Rover try to sell LHD defenders here Mick,I don't know of any changes LR make to the defender to make them Aust compliant either. Pat

They fit that silly little extended bracket for the rear number plate which then sticks out the passenger side because we don't get square number plates here, which would fit.

Originally Posted by DiscoMick

They fit that silly little extended bracket for the rear number plate which then sticks out the passenger side because we don't get square number plates here, which would fit.

i was so annoyed when i saw this bracket thing, and we do get square ones in VIC and SA.

Originally Posted by 350RRC

I think you mean LHD.

Goodridge braided stainless brake lines (guaranteed for life) are Euro approved, but not necessarily ADR approved AFAIK, except in Queensland where I must have fitted mine.

If ADR approval is directly related to Euro do you have a link to confirm?

Thanks John, DL

I don't know about brake lines - I was actually talking about lights, where (as I have looked them up) the NSW regulations are a direct copy of Euro ones.

Brake lines, as with any other safety related part, the general rule is that part replacements must be the same as the parts specified by the manufacturer - which needs to be documented. But as with all registration requirements - these may vary from state to state. While all states and territories have agreed to accept ADRs, these have to be implemented in legislation or regulations - and then interpreted by the registration authorities. The results of this are not always uniform.

John

I did a lot of research on this a couple of years back, when looking for 146mm lamps.
Back then only JW speaker had an LED unit, and the lumen output versus the cost was just staggeringly stupid. Noone made an E marked LHT version of a projector HID for 146mm. There were some crappy chinese polycarb housings with massive dome clear lenses, but they were so distorted it wasn't funny.

How things have changed...

I remember when JW Speaker first came out with the 8000 series 7" LED's. they were nearly 1K AUD per unit. So prices have almost halved, they have several models and multiple evolutions of those models, although only the 8700 series style was ever relevant, as it was a hi/low beam setup.

One thing that is often lost on people is the quality control process for chinese manufactured lights. Sure, they may look the same. Trust me when I say the quality control is NOT there. One of the reasons units like the Nolden, trucklite and Speaker cost so much compared to others is the QC process. Also, as any electronics manufacturer can tell you, out of a production run of hundreds of thousands of single units, only about 20% are in the top 1% of tolerances. This is something even chip manufacturers still struggle with today. It's another reason we go to small volume/high cost manufacturers in countries like japan for example (and in europe as well, fwiw) to source custom silicon prototypes.

The trucklite, speaker and nolden units are high cost because of the QC process. Those Cree LED's are not all created equal. It's another reason you have companies like visionX taking full control over the LED die, to ensure they meet specification.

And all of that simply equates to added cost for guaranteed reliability.

But.....

Are they better?

Well, from a vibration / abuse perspective, you would favour LED's over incandescent globes and even HID to an extent. but you could buy quite a few sets of incandescent H4 globes for the cost of even a single 7" LED lamp, with HID's sitting not far behind (and I'm not talking about those cheapass crap conversion HID's, I'm referring to proper projector housings like Hella's 7" unit).

For temperature colour, it is very very hard to go past the natural warm yellowish tungsten filament from an incandescent globe. It suits our eyes, in that the glare is not as 'damaging' when you're in oncoming traffic. The downside is relatively speaking - low lumen output for current draw, and large amounts of heat. Basically they are not the most efficient lights out there, but they are NICE to see with.

Then at the other end of the spectrum (literally) you can have HID lamps with temps of over 12000?K which is just purile and ricer-boy styling exercise.... but you CAN have HID's with low low low 3000?K temps and very high lumen outputs. and if you overdrive them (say a 35w with a 55w ballast) they can produce a higher lumen output albeit at the expense of shorter lifespan of the globe.

For HID's I've found the optimal temp to be around 4600?K for hi/low and 3300?K for fogs. If you are a DIY'er, then you can use products from vendors like TRS, and britaxe to make your own projector HID 7" conversion, and then plumb in washer nozzles, and you will still comply with ADR's (if they concerned you at all).

For LED's, it's still a little harder - in that you're limited to 'decent' but expensive (still) technology, and quality issues.

Having said that, quality is an issue that exists across all 3 variations.... globes, ballasts and LED dies.

The only thing I can say about all of the variations is quite simply, you get what you pay for.

7 years ago I bought my first H4 HID retrofit kit. It was a Philips/osram setup and it is still working perfectly without any issue.

I've purchased projector kits from TRS, and used morimoto and osram globes, and had no failures to date.

4 years ago I purchased my first LED driving lights (great whites) and they were only the 9 led version. This year, I moved them from my SL to the Rangie and discovered that the rear connector housing was cracked at the screws. It wasn't affecting the operation, i just noticed it had occurred, so I decided to test the warranty.
I took pictures of them and the serial numbers and emailed it off to ashdown, who responded immediately - 2 replacements on the way.
The email from the distributor (visionX) was interesting. The units I had purchased, were pre-production evalutation units, and they should have been returned (but werent - this may have been my fault actually) and they were very grateful to receive them after 4 years, with only this issue.

Interestingly enough, that problem was rectified in the initial production run, and was made 3x thicker and the company have not had a single failure since.

The moral of the story is you get what you pay for here.... but more importantly, purchasing from the correct local channels ensures that you get immediate warranty attention and any replacement is very rapid. I only have good things to say about Ashdown-Ingram and their exceptional customer service. If you are in Sydney, then speak to Tony Rossitano and tell him I sent you.

I'm sure there are plenty of stories out there equally as pleasing about cheaper units. But I am not the kind of person who wastes money needlessly. I have expectations that a product with a price premium should last and should be backed up by exceptional after-sales service. I know those lights were expensive, and for me the decision to purchase a second set, did not come 'lightly' (excuse the pun, couldn't resist).

And JW Speaker??? well, I'll be honest and say 'not all they're cracked up to be'

I haven't seen Nolden units available, but I'd be interested in them, and Truck-lite have an excellent reputation in the industry for their newest 7" unit.

Also worth noting, for landy nuts is that Bearmach are selling the 'ring' brand 7" LED lights, RHL149 & RHL150 but you can see them direct here: Ring or here Vehicle Lighting, Bulbs, Lamps, Auto Electrical, Chargers, Battery Packs - Ring Automotive

My only suggestion to those contemplating them is to spend time researching the brand before purchasing. In the case of Truck-lite, I can pretty much confirm that so many transport companies are going to the LED units that you may have trouble getting hold of a pair.

Also make sure you are aware that RHD = LHT (left hand traffic) so if you are ordering part numbers from overseas websites, make sure you get the correct E marked versions.

Myself? well I replaced the 7" reflectors in my RRC when I bought the car, and run hella inserts with a high quality german made osram 130/90w H4 globe, which is correctly adjusted. Yes, the low beam is a little lame compared to the new HID sedan cars, but it is very good for an incandescent globe, and the high beam is very satisfactory on paved highway. but when I'm out in the sticks, those 18LED great whites provide all the extra distance I could ever need, and certainly satisfy my requirements of low current draw and high lumen output (unlike the h4 globes in high/low beam).

I'll keep a lookout for those Nolden units, and may purchase a set of truck-lites in the near future if I cannot find a decent supplier.

As for other lighting projects, I'm currently embarked on a diy set of H1 HID extra-long throw 146mm high beam for a soon-to-be arriving roof rack.

Good post Merc,

The 'k' reference with HID is nothing to do with temp (as in degrees Kelvin) but colour.

I had HID's for headlights, H4 hi lo, for a number of years till one globe blew. Back on halogen for the time being.

Mine were 5000k and a bit too pale blue. Would go 4300 next time. I needed really good low beam to see the LHS road edge on dodgy roads with oncoming traffic in the wee hours of the morning whilst going to meetings in western Vic.

Used to go past the dairy farms in action pre dawn, and drive home when they were in their second shift.

My normal 7" housings were aimed lower than normal with the HID's and no one ever flashed me while on low beam.

Will get around to refitting HID's, just no urgency atm.

cheers, DL

Originally Posted by Mercguy

And JW Speaker??? well, I'll be honest and say 'not all they're cracked up to be'

thanks for the post mate.. why are the JW Speakers not that good?

Originally Posted by 350RRC

Good post Merc,

The 'k' reference with HID is nothing to do with temp (as in degrees Kelvin) but colour.


cheers, DL

I reread my post and it wasn't very clear - so hope to remove any misunderstanding....

the 'colour' of the HID lights is measured in spectral temperature, which is quoted in degrees Kelvin Temperature.
colour-temperature-chart.jpg

No need to go into it in any great length but if anyone does : Color temperature - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cut a long story short, we used to do this about 20 years ago when callibrating CRT monitors for (then) digital proofing (desktop publishing) so you could get a wysiwyg relationship between the colours on the screen and the printing process.

Anyway,

There is absolutely nothing wrong with HID or LED, provided that the colour temperature does not exceed 6000K. After that, you can be defected by dept of transport (something about UV & 'blinding' effect, but geez, I drive around with my orange lenses to stop oncoming dazzle nowadays. Must be my age)

Regarding the JW Speaker Hi/Lo LED 7" drivers.... I tested a set of these a few years back, and the light output was far less than I expected. without wanting to be a jerk, I'll try and put it sucinctly.
Instead of using the standard 7" Speaker replacement for the headlight on my ducati, I instead purchased 2 OEX (vision x) 10w cree spread-beam 'driving lights' and used them for low beam instead. Later I decided I wanted some pencil beams, and bought 2 of those. I found I could ride the bike at (stupidly fast) speeds through dark twisty forrested local roads without needing a main beam.
Later on, I ended up buying a single 9LED great whites unit and used that as the replacement high beam instead of the 7" lamp.

but before I did all that, I tested the JW Speaker unit. It had less output than the 2 10w spread beam (remember those lamps have no cutoff and had to be severely angled downwards to not affect oncoming traffic). In fact I was so apprehensive about the throw from the speaker, I only tested it for one night before remobing it and putting back the standard 35W tungsten lamp. That is how scary it was.... And if anyone here knows anything about riding a bike on damp twisty roads in the dark, then they would understand exactly how bad the situation is when you replace any aftermarket illumination product with the standard crappy ducati incandescent 7" headlamp.

I have to say, it was very experimental at the time, but the LED's were perfect. I had so many riders asking me about the conversion, that I swear I tripled the business for great whites. before long there were a few local riders attempting similar conversions with cheap ebay chinese crap, and not getting the same results and whingeing about it.... and following me when we'd ride through the park or up the pass etc. so it was all proof that not all lights are created equal.

There is only one key differentiator for me, which was low current draw. LED's by far had the lowest current draw for the equivalent lumen output. It is simply put, the only reason I chose LED driving lights instead of doing a DIY HID again (although I find myself wanting to do this again for sheer curiosity - from a beam angle perspective).

I know those fyrlyts are raved about, and others swear by HID's - be they hella, narva, or even cibie super oscar conversions, but at the end of the day, mounting a HID setup on the bullbar poses some issues, especially where remote ballasts are concerned. Then there is the associated water ingress etc... So it was far easier to make the choice.

Cost is an issue. Actually, it is a BIG issue still. For the cost of the LED's I could have bought some serious HID lamps and had spare change. obviously not if I bought some of hellas predator IX's but you get my point - in that just about every hid driving light currently on the market is cheaper than a set of LED's.

As for headlamps.... well I'm only using the incandescent hella h4 reflectors because I've had loads of experience with them in the past and they are truly reliable. And if the wiring to the globes is done correctly, then the light output is perfectly adequate for suburban / highway driving. You only really need the additional light when driving interstate or country backroads... or 4wd'ing.

But like I said before - the argument for lumens vs current draw is always going to be the one that wins it for LED's. They wont win on price - at least for the near future, so if I were to make a choice right now, in having to replace a set of 7" lamp housings, I'd simply either fab a set of HID projectors with a TRS kit in a britaxe 7" housing, or buy the hella 7" retrofit unit. The only thing is, I'm also aware of the costs of truly top quality osram HID globes, and they are not far behind LED driving lamps in terms of outlay.... and I wouldn't waste my time with a cheap jaycar kit or ebay crap.

but truck-lite's new version of their 7" hi/lo LED appears to be the ducks - from all the people I know who have retrofitted them. So they are something I would consider in the near future - perhaps when I burn a globe out... but right now, I'm content with having a nice warm incandescent light, albeit with the drawback of greater current draw than standard.

Apologies if that sounds like a bit of a rant - Whatever you do, make sure you get a guarantee of a full refund on the lights you intend to purchase, if you find they are not satisfactory after fitment. Do not be surprised by the change in colour temperature of the LED's or be fooled into believing they are better simply because the light is a different hue. Test them in the rain on an unlit road and see if they illuminate the white lines clearly for 50-75 metres ahead of the vehicle in heavy rain. That is where I found most 5-6000K units have their downfall.

Some good info there mercguy.

I was also keen on the latest truck lights, but after seeing the photos at the start of the thread, I think I might wait a few more revisions.

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