Thread: suspension mods for a defender 130

Mine was done before I got it but I will dig up any paperwork and let you know. It does have a 2 inch lift with LTR shocks which are $$$$ though.

<span style="color:blue">give heasmans suspension a buzz......i think they custom make bilstein
shocks which land rovers seem to like so much.....they can build you a shock
to suit your needs.....cant help with cost...but bilsteins have never been cheap.....</span>

http://www.heasmans.com.au

And thats exactly why if your going to go away from the mainstream go LTR over Billies.

By the time you revalve a monotube shock you could buy the LTRs 1.5 times

And the best quote from an offroad racer / outback challenge driver I know...

Bilsteins are for fast Euro Saloons.... Big Twin tubes / Remote Canisters are for Offroad.

I'll get back to you shortly with some detailed info.

Cheers
Mike

Do I dare ask.....

What's wrong with keeping it stock standard?

Do you really need a lift?

In my experience, the 130 rear setup (coil plus helper) rarely saggs. If you're finding that the rear suspension is too low with all your gear then I'd suggest that you're probably overloading the truck!

The front springs do have a tendancy to sag but replcaing them is quite simple. It may well be worth changing the front springs and if it's any help, the standard heavy duty front springs are also the same as 90 rears.

IMHO - Get the bushes replaced first. Australian road conditions eat LandRover bushes for breakfast & it's amazing the difference made to the handling when on a fresh set of bushes. And then throw some money at a decent set of dampers.

My 2c worth....

Mark.

Thanks everyone,
Please keep the opinions and info coming!

Mark - I only want to add lift if there is a strong argument for it to be weighed up against the counter view. Not being able to get under ANY car parking stations will require some good points!

Do the springs sag much over time/work and is it possible or even preferable to replace them or to have them 'de-sagged'? What measurements could I take to tell me if sagging is even an issue at the moment?

So if I replaced the front springs on my 130 with heavy duty rear springs from a 90 that would compensate for the extra load (winch bar & winch plus bonnet mounted spare)? I want the vehicle to sit right.

How would that then leave the front end compared to the rear end?

What shocks/dampers would you suggest Mark and why?

George 130 - how have you found your set up? Have you owned/driven other 130s in order to make a comparison? Please do flick through the costs to me - by pm would be fine unless you think that others will also be interested - they probably will be.

Defenderzook - I know where Heasmans are now that you mention it - not too far from my work. I have no experience with them though - do you know of good reports on their work?

Mike - very keen to hear your detailed info too - thanks. Both you and Rick seem to have a lot of experience at fiddling with these things and would thus seem to me to be able to provide real comparisons on performance. Cost is also an issue for me as it is for most people. I am looking for performance and even though the quote from the offroad racer is a good one I am not likely to be an outback challenge driver anytime soon.

That being said I would like equipment to break probably even less than they would as they would have a backup team and spares and technical skills to fall back on that I simply don't.

I guess also what I am trying to find is a complete package and where I should start and if it can be added to in a logical sequence that can allow me to space out the expense a little. If I can't I can't but I am trying to make sensible decisions. The ability to have parts repaired or replaced without too much grief when out and about would be a major bonus too - this is one of the main reasons I went for the 300tdi rather than the more fancy and technical td5.

Thanks again guys - more info please!
Cameron

Originally posted by cameron+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cameron)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Mark - I only want to add lift if there is a strong argument for it to be weighed up against the counter view. Not being able to get under ANY car parking stations will require some good points!
[/b]

I gave up ages ago trying to get into car parks as I've got a roofrack on my Defender!!! IMO, the ONLY reason to go for a lift is if you want to get larger tyres fitted. Larger tyres require stronger axles (due to the extra torque applied) and at this point you enter a never ending spiral of 'upgrade-itus'. Once you enter this spiral, should you break anything, getting hold of spares starts to become an issue too. Parts are much easier to come by if kept standard.

A Defender is a more than capable vehicle in standard form.

Originally posted by cameron+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(cameron)</div><div class='quotemain'>
Do the springs sag much over time/work and is it possible or even preferable to replace them or to have them 'de-sagged'? What measurements could I take to tell me if sagging is even an issue at the moment?
[/b]

If the springs have started to sag, replacement is the only real option. Measurements... Dunno but I'm sure there's some data somewhere. Mind you, if you're constantly hitting the bump stops, chances are your springs are tired (either that or you're overloading the truck).

<!--QuoteBegin-cameron@

So if I replaced the front springs on my 130 with heavy duty rear springs from a 90 that would compensate for the extra load (winch bar & winch plus bonnet mounted spare)? I want the vehicle to sit right.

How would that then leave the front end compared to the rear end?
[/quote]

It's actually: Std 90 Rear = HD 110/130 Front.

If you've got a spare on the bonnet, winch & winch bumper then the HD front spring setup is the way to go. It's what LandRover would fit in that scenario and it would sit right.

<!--QuoteBegin-cameron

What shocks/dampers would you suggest Mark and why?
[/quote]

I've got OME fitted but that choice was more based on price/performance & what we had available in the UK at the time. There are others on this list that know far more about dampers than I do.

HTH

Mark

Cameron,
as Camel Landy said, stock is very, very capable. Everything is a compromise, it depends on what you want to do, and most importantly of all, how much are you prepared to $$$$$$$

You already have a Maxi rear, that alone, with stock springs and shocks will get most people into where they want to go (or more stuck... ) If you want more flex, at the expense of more body roll and lurch on change of direction, remove the anti-roll bars. It frees the front end up remarkably.

I found that with a steel bull bar, winch, side rails and steps and a sill tank that the front needed lifting, bump stop clearances were around 60-65mm.
The best compromise for me at the time were Rangie Spares 'purple' springs, which when first installed and let settle for a week gave me 117/114mm between the bump stops on a leveled floor. It really only brings the front end back up to a little higher than where it would be without all the add-ons, or so it seems looking at a couple of stock 130's around here. These springs are 220lb/in, nominally 17" free length. (OE are 225lb/in, 15.5"). With a winch, steel bar, side bars and steps and a sill tank, + a constant 4/500+kg in the ute tray this still gives a small amount of rake (rear higher than the front). The front springs often hit the bump stops on our ordinary roads around here (could be my driving as well.. ), although you don't really notice this when it happens, just the nice clean bump stops when you look underneath. The Rangie Spares springs aren't the best finished in the world, but they are functional, and haven't sagged too badly over time. (lost about 15mm in three years) If I did it again, I'd try to get Lovells to wind some to the same specs, or if I was feeling really flush, I'd try and get some made by Eibach, but $$$$$.
In the shockies department, I'm currently using 80 Series Land Cruiser Koni's, (pt # 82-2385) but you have to lift the towers to fit these or they will go metal to metal in bump, and this also costs $$. I believe N73 OME (80 Series) will fit without mods. If this is the case, OME 80 series LTR's (LTR 01F) would be a premium alternative that will yield a genuine 10" of travel (more than the Koni's) but are $425.00 each retail. If you don't need the extra travel, or don't want to compromise the on road part of the equation, Land Rover specific Bilstein, Koni, or OME LTR would give good handling and good life. I'm planning on swapping out the Koni's for something a little more exotic in the future, but they have survived well.
With the longer shocks, you also need to run longer brake hoses to suit, and I'm also running Haultech slotted bushes and have removed the anti-roll bar, as the front drive shaft fouls it at full droop. I was going to run the arb with disconnects 'till I found this out. Removing the arb's is noticable in increased lurch in change of direction on road, (even with the dampers on full hard) but fine on sweepers (the roll is more gradual). The increase in articulation off road is really nice. Again, it depends on how far you want to compromise.

My 130 rear end is still stock in the spring department, (it's still my one and only work truck) although I want to try some late model variable rate 130 springs. You can go heavier if you need to Ive been in a 130 with 540lb/in springs + the 140lb inners with some TJM shockies on the back and a camper body on top. It was pretty wallowy and rolly as it tared over 3 tonne !

To really make the rear end flex, and yet still be able to carry a load, air bags can be fitted to eliminate the coils in the rear, or you can remove the coil inners and fit smaller ones inside, or even go to a lower rate coil with the air bags inside. Air bags can also help articulation when off road by opening a solenoid in a common air line. When one compresses it forces the air back into its opposite number, extending it. The solenoid is closed for general road use making them independent in operation. http://www.airbagman.com.au/Light%20Vehicl.../autoabout.html

The rear springs have seved me well, considering it's compromised (that word again) for load carrying. Believe it or not, I have stock shockies in the back ATM as well (boing, boing boing). I've tried a few different longer ones over the last few years and haven't been too happy, (mainly lack of damping) and have experimented with unrestrained springs, but keep throwing the original shockies back in till the next experiment. I'm really surprised they are still going.
Realistically, Bilsteins or 82 series Koni's (even with their adjustment) will have to be re-valved to cope with the spring rate of a 130 rear. (330lb + 140lb= 470lb/in) as they are really only rated for a Rangie or Disco rear end.
Koni do have a 'Raid' shock specifically for the rear of a 110/130. These were developed from their biggest truck shocks for Dakar type Raids. There are two height versions, one for stock suspension (90-5375) and one for 2" raised (90-5401). These are bloody expensive. I had a trade price when they were first announced, and I'm guessing the retail would be around $450.00.
OME and TJM also have heavier valved versions of their rear shocks to suit the heavier spring rates.

The Landy coiler rear end is really susceptable to bump and particularly roll steer. If there is the slightest amount of wear in the bushes, the rear end will steer you all over the road. If you use cheap, hard urethane bushes, it increases the ride harshness and restricts travel. Most people in Landy Land say stick to the original bushes, but I'm going to stick my neck out and say the best lower rear trailing arm to chassis bush I've seen is made by Fulcrum/Super Pro and is urethane. The design is ingenious and IMNSHO is far superior to the OE bush in design and materials. The triangular plate is a heavier section and so doesn't distort like the OE one, and the design of the bush itself allows superior articulation. I'll try and dig up a pic. I've also used their bushes on the 'A' frame to chassis mounts. Again it's a different design to the OE one, and has eliminated a major clunk in the rear end and a rear steer problem. The OE bush wasn't worn out, there was just too much play between the pivot bolt and inner tube. Generally, I don't believe in urethane on pivots (although it lends itself very well to compression) but with a liberal dose of moly grease on the tubes, it's worked fine so far.

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>And the best quote from an offroad racer / outback challenge driver I know...

Bilsteins are for fast Euro Saloons.... Big Twin tubes / Remote Canisters are for Offroad.
[/b][/quote]

really ?? what about mono-tube and a remote can, eg. Custer, King, Fox, Ohlins, Reiger, Donerre, Aushock, oh yeah, and Bilstein.....