Thread: What would it take to make a land rover "toyota" reliable?

And that's the secret. Maintenance. If you look after a vehicle, it will look after you. Especially an older vehicle because this naturally means it wasn't a lemon or jinxed to begin with.

In older vehicles, as in 15+ years when purchased, I've had a Hilux, a Patrol and now the Disco II over the years. The Hilux was with me for 6 years, and the Patrol eleven. It was only rust that got them in the end. The Disco was probably purchased in the best nick out of the lot of them, but the process is the same. Go over them with a fine tooth comb and just fix anything that looks suspect or is a well known issue. This initial expense is still less then depreciation on a newer vehicle. After that, regular maintenance and attending to problems before they get out of hand keeps them ticking like a clock at minimal expense.

This said, I remember back in the Overlander days a Toyota owner was giving LandRovers **** for being unreliable and his evidence was actually AULRO with the first page being a whole stack of posts on various problems. He did have to have a laugh when I checked out LCool and it was exactly the same for Toyotas. In some ways, that's also probably the nature of what 4WD communities are all about irrspective of what you drive.

Reliability comes down to regular maintenance. Land Rovers are great if you maintain them regularly. Some may have seen my post a while back about the tow truck driver who reckoned the D2 was the best thing land Rover ever made be cause he hardly ever sees them on his tow truck, but his boss really loves 200 series landcruisers because they pay for his annual overseas holiday with the amount of them that break down.
You're always going to get a different story from the Landy fan versus the cruiser fan, versus the Jeep fan! (as they stock up on fire suppressants).

IMHO...
Reliability Engineering.
*Land Rover reliability (or not) has nothing to do with the high tech and pushing new limits ahead of the rest. Its got to do with the mindset of the company Jaguar Land Rover which is focused on brand image and competing with other **** box brands such as Mercedes, VAG.
*Their seems to be a zero level of build quality and R & D in reliability.
*Like so many other very average companies that allow accountants and money managers to make decisions on component selection, as in price over a more reliable component.
*Taking short cuts in component quality, build standards, and component design.
*Jaguar Land Rover could do better in build quality and component quality if they chose to do so.

*Toyota are showing signs of the same fate with many simple issues that could have been avoided at the design or component selection stage.
*DPF & injectors issues are the obvious examples of late.

It doesnt look like a hell of a lot has changed with Land Rovers...
*New model Range Rover Sport V6 diesel when doing a timing belt change I remove the engine bay braces to aid better access to the rear belt. The braces are attached to the top of the suspension tower and are held in place with bolts and captive nuts on the underside, without fail (on 6 vehicles now) at least 2 of the captive nuts will either fall off when the bolt is removed or spin with the bolt as you try to undo it. This is some very basic lacking in quality control.

Recently had in a new Defender to fit genuine rear recovery mounts, the bolts that are removed and re-attach to mount the recovery eyes were already showing corrosion. Not to mention there are about 6 different sized bolts/screws/fixtures retaining the rear bumper, have they not heard of fixture rationalisation?

IMHO the new Defender is going to make or break the company with its reliability... or not.
Can Jaguar Land Rover afford not to have the best quality components on the new Defender?

Originally Posted by barney

Reliability comes down to regular maintenance. Land Rovers are great if you maintain them regularly. Some may have seen my post a while back about the tow truck driver who reckoned the D2 was the best thing land Rover ever made be cause he hardly ever sees them on his tow truck, but his boss really loves 200 series landcruisers because they pay for his annual overseas holiday with the amount of them that break down.
You're always going to get a different story from the Landy fan versus the cruiser fan, versus the Jeep fan! (as they stock up on fire suppressants).

The tilt tray guy that picked up the sons Defender a few years back said if it wasn’t for LR’s and other European vehicles he wouldn’t have a business.

As for your comment,just compare the number of D2’s on the road to 200’s,there is just no comparison,although I doubt what he says is anywhere near the actual truth.

Originally Posted by DazzaTD5

IMHO...
Reliability Engineering.
*Land Rover reliability (or not) has nothing to do with the high tech and pushing new limits ahead of the rest. Its got to do with the mindset of the company Jaguar Land Rover which is focused on brand image and competing with other **** box brands such as Mercedes, VAG.
*Their seems to be a zero level of build quality and R & D in reliability.
*Like so many other very average companies that allow accountants and money managers to make decisions on component selection, as in price over a more reliable component.
*Taking short cuts in component quality, build standards, and component design.
*Jaguar Land Rover could do better in build quality and component quality if they chose to do so.

*Toyota are showing signs of the same fate with many simple issues that could have been avoided at the design or component selection stage.
*DPF & injectors issues are the obvious examples of late.


Recently had in a new Defender to fit genuine rear recovery mounts, the bolts that are removed and re-attach to mount the recovery eyes were already showing corrosion. Not to mention there are about 6 different sized bolts/screws/fixtures retaining the rear bumper, have they not heard of fixture rationalisation?

IMHO the new Defender is going to make or break the company with its reliability... or not.
Can Jaguar Land Rover afford not to have the best quality components on the new Defender?

Was saying something similar about component quality in D3/ D4 section which was probably about as popular as the proverbial fart in a space suit.
Travelling with a mate who owns a workshop ( mainly Toyota's ) with his 200 series so there's the obvious well aimed banter but at the end of the day his is on the 2nd engine and turbos , alt , starter motor and steering rack with 367000k on the clock and he admits they're nowhere near as good as the turbo 6 .

I guess you would have had a look while the new defender was in to see if easier component access than D4 etc ( realise it should be easier but thoughts ) ?

Originally Posted by scarry

As for your comment,just compare the number of D2’s on the road to 200’s,there is just no comparison,although I doubt what he says is anywhere near the actual truth.

Well the D2 was out of production for almost 5 years before the 200 series came onto the market, and D2 was on the market for about 5 years and the 200 series is now up to 14 years and still going - so of course there are more 200s on the road - now from what I see, there are about the same number of D2s as 100 series - there were lots more 100s made but it seems now they are about the same numbers on the road.

Sorry folks but you can maintain your vehicle all you like but if it is a design issue it is just not going to be improved just by good maintenance. I am sure you have all had your experiences. I lol give you one just to provide some easily relatable substance to the thread. R380/LT230 output gear on the shaft messing with the input of the LT230. Poor lubrication caused the splines on the output shaft and the gear to wear. No matter how much reasonable maintenance was conducted you were not going to improve that. It was a design problem, a small hole at the root of the teeth forced oil down onto the splines problem cured. A design issue not maintenance.

I could add the timing belt of the 300Tdi shredding due to alignment problems/expansion/flex. Fixed by a proper bracket on the injection pump that allowed for expansion to maintain alignment.

I put much of the problems down to attitude/culture of the company. As previously mentioned been counters making decisions that should be made by people with technical knowledge on parts etc.

What we all need to remember is that making a vehicle is an exercise in compromise. Lightweight for fuel economy and responsiveness means you can’t just throw more steel at the design problem. And here starts on of Landrovers initial shortcomings. LR started from a car company and they used car components from the parent company for their initial design, when the weight of the vehicle started to increase due to upsizing from series ones to what we had towards the end of the last of the original defenders things like Rover diffs could not cope with the beignet heavier and (don’t laugh) more powerful engines.

Toyota made their 4x4s using truck division parts, yes heavier but did not disintegrate at the same rate as car size components.

Manufacturers refine designs to improve things but there is only so much that can be done within the space claims of the original components. Now that all manufacturers are basically on the same vehicle making formula forced onto them by the market and regulators wanting better fuel economy and less carbon output. The quality of vehicles (reliability and running costs etc) will be determined by the size of company pocketbook. I am sure a company like Toyota has more to spend on the design of their vehicle vs a smaller company like Landrover.

I still love my landrovers but am eying a Ineos Grenadier. With vehicle will I have to move on 300Tdi wagon or Td5 Disco IIa?