Thread: D2 suspension solution?

It all depends on what you want to do with it.

For touring the rear springs may even be a little soft and once you pack up the rear it may (will) still sag.

If you want to to some serious offroad work then the rear is probably about right.

Unless you have ACE I would not go lighter than 180 on the front.

With a 50mm lift I was running the Tough Dog shocks and they were fine. They are about the same open and closed length as the OME shocks but have a much larger bore so don't fade like the OME. You can also leave the bumpstops as they are if you use the toughdogs etc as they have about the same closed length as stock shocks. If you go to the LTR Bilsteins then I think you will have to extend your bumpstops as the closed length is longer and then you are not actually getting any extra travel from your suspension.

No need to extend ABS or brake lines with a 50-60mm lift

Thanks Walker, trying to set it up for prodominantly off road performance as I don't do much touring. I am hoping though, that by sticking in some polyairs, this will allow me to load it up occasionally and reduce the sag in the back.

Got ACE which is why I would like to go a bit softer in the front.

Hi Mick,

Check with Redback and Slunnie, they have got a D2 system pretty well nutted out, for both offroad and touring, I think they are using Lovells springs wound to specs that Slunnie tried and tested.

Redback even drags his camper with his.

The biggest issue with Long spring spacers is coil bind.

By placing spacers under/over the coil you have effectively increased the spring length so under full compression coil bind can occur.

This can (and will) crack spring mounts and chassis points unless your bump stops are lengthened to suit.

The OLD OME spec front springs were too light, causing the collapse over time, softer longer coils will eventually suffer the same fate with a Bar and Winch up front. This is inevitable.

I worked closely with the OME guys to get the front coil rate changed. The updated HD front coil is 225lbs but still has same part number (OME779).

225lb fronts still provide full flex, heck even 290lb will fully flex offroad (I've tested and proven it) and the 220ish/300-340ish combo is a great balanced setup.

We took it a little further with the D2 and went 225/360lb due to the draw system and LR tanks and its one of the most balanced and comfortable rides I've driven.

This is in a D2 with ACE and it works brilliantly, full flex offroad, good balanced handling on fast gravel and highway.

Ironically, the magic numbers for the defender are 220lb/320lb... 320 being as firm as wanted with full gear in the back (360lb was too stiff and bounced over corrugations causing skipping) This isnt the issue in the 100" wheelbase Discovery.

Now, with regards to lift... What will be your tyre size of choice? What your running?

If so, dont lift any higher, its unnecessary, serves only to reduce down travel, and increased COG....

The ultimate 4wd has the lowest lift possible and biggest tyres....

I'd suggest if your not wanting to cut guards, flares etc....and like the 265s then stick with a 40-50mm lift.

Tombraider

Yeah Slunnie has been very helpful in the past for a lot of my mods and has tipped in with my previous suspension questions also.

Tombraider, some valid points there which have of course put more doubt in my mind about which way to go........it's a black art this supension thing. Ultimately I want off road performance with a reasonable lift. I am happy to sacrifice some on road performance as I have ace and don't drive like a racing driver. Idealy if I can soften the ride up slightly and also gain some more droop without having to modify too much underneath.

Planning on sticking with 265/75R16 although may go slightly wider next time if I can, but no intention of cutting gaurds. One of the reasons for a reasonably high (2-3") lift is to increase my approach angle. With the ARB winch bar it is very ordinary for some of the off road stuff I do - the bar has copped a flogging around the bottom.

Thanks....

Yes, a black art of sorts, but not too bad.

Regardless of how much lift you fit you will hit the bar... The more lift the harder people tend to go at things....

A few scrapes arent an issue really. But caution (restraint) must be exercised at all times

I'll make a suggestion if I may.

Longer shocks + modifications to ABS wires, brake lines, ACE links etc... All starts to add up for a smal increase in suspension droop.

A more logical and cost effective approach may be to look at the following:

A mild lift with a Rear locker will be more stable, provide more forward progress and less strain on the vehicle.
No amount of down travel is any good if you cant put the power to the ground.

A wheel past approximately 3" droop has little to no weight on it, providing no real tractive advantage to the vehicle (the wheel is so light by then it just spins) 8" of travel down wont help in this instance either, hence why rock crawlers have such LONG springs, they force that wheel to grab the ground.

Excessive droop also has a negative effect on side stability, and combined with excessive drop means the other end of the vehicle may well not be 'forced' to work.

Drews defender had a cone system in the rear and the front rarely flexed well. Retaining the rear coils has made the front articulate more providing better offroad performance.

The secret to a compromise vehicle (road and offroad) is balance.

Making the front work as hard as the rear...

ANY manufacturers system will work if its balanced. Not just OME.... (I have been told I'm OME bias) but its a system, not just a pile of parts at any rate etc...

Slunnies system is balanced, and uses the same rates mentioned above to provide the balance of flex, load and driveability....

I would suggest keeping the system you have, adding some new 779 front coils (which will balance the front out) then spending on a rear locker to give the optimum traction advantage.

Tombraider

Originally Posted by tombraider

Thanks....

Yes, a black art of sorts, but not too bad.

Regardless of how much lift you fit you will hit the bar... The more lift the harder people tend to go at things....

A few scrapes arent an issue really. But caution (restraint) must be exercised at all times

I'll make a suggestion if I may.

Longer shocks + modifications to ABS wires, brake lines, ACE links etc... All starts to add up for a smal increase in suspension droop.

A more logical and cost effective approach may be to look at the following:

A mild lift with a Rear locker will be more stable, provide more forward progress and less strain on the vehicle.
No amount of down travel is any good if you cant put the power to the ground.

A wheel past approximately 3" droop has little to no weight on it, providing no real tractive advantage to the vehicle (the wheel is so light by then it just spins) 8" of travel down wont help in this instance either, hence why rock crawlers have such LONG springs, they force that wheel to grab the ground.

Excessive droop also has a negative effect on side stability, and combined with excessive drop means the other end of the vehicle may well not be 'forced' to work.

Drews defender had a cone system in the rear and the front rarely flexed well. Retaining the rear coils has made the front articulate more providing better offroad performance.

The secret to a compromise vehicle (road and offroad) is balance.

Making the front work as hard as the rear...

ANY manufacturers system will work if its balanced. Not just OME.... (I have been told I'm OME bias) but its a system, not just a pile of parts at any rate etc...

Slunnies system is balanced, and uses the same rates mentioned above to provide the balance of flex, load and driveability....

I would suggest keeping the system you have, adding some new 779 front coils (which will balance the front out) then spending on a rear locker to give the optimum traction advantage.

Tombraider

It's all starting to make a bit more sense and I agree balance is the key. I do actually have a rear maxi locker with axles which does get me through/up/over/out of most situations and is a great piece of kit. I also agree that I don't want to be spending too much for little gain.

I am starting to come round but as I have the locker, busted front shocks and - no offense intended - would like to move away from OME springs or shocks, are there any other systems or brand combinations that you know work well for the D2. Ideally a softer ride is what I am after which I why I was leaning towards 240lb rear and 160-180 front, but front shocks or even all 4 are the priority now before springs. Having said that, with your advice I seem to be talking myself out of a lot of other expensive mods to go higher, perhaps I can look at the full 2" spring and shock set sooner.

You have been making perfect sense so far so I am very happy to hear your thoughts on what spring / shock combo I might look at next assuming I end up sticking with a 2" lift.

The OME springs I have at the moment are too firm in the back and have sagged too much in the front. The front shocks have also gone although the backs are probably still okay - may as well look at replacing the whole lot to gain optimum balance.

Appreciate your help again Tombraider and look forward to your response.

Aye, Mick

Just to confuse you more, remember, Mr. Raider is a Defender driver (and a not so small one at that) so they like it Hard!


On my Disco I was running 150lb custom springs on the front and SLS on the rear with a 2" lift and it was magnificent. Flexed well but still did not bottom out when doing all the dunes across the Simpson and handled very well on the corrugations. But then I have ACE so I could get away with softer springs without getting too much body roll. Yes the longer softer springs will sag quicker but it's the compromise you make and I loved it. Without ACE I would not be going less than 180 on the front.
The rear I am not sure about as I have SLS so i don't have to worry. If you are planning to keep it all light or willing to put in bags for the long trips then 280lb would be good.

As Mike has said, you also need to look at why you want the lift. Most people go for a spring lift to larger tyres but unles you modify bumpstops it makes no difference anyway. Also we were running 34" Simex JT2's with only a 12mm lift without a problem.