EGR and turbo issues with the TDV6 2.7 diesel engine

**egr victim** · 8th January 2024, 03:03 PM

I'm new to this forum so I hope I am able to post this without upsetting anyone. This forum has moe info on this engine than anywhere else. I own a ford territory with the TDV6 2.7 and around 250k on the clock. Great engine except for the EGR issues. The plan was to keep this thing running till at least 300k. Any engine worth its salt should make 300k easily but this will be a struggle. This is a long post but am stumped.

I have cleaned and replaced egr valves several times over the years on both sides as a result of the car going in to limp home mode. This is not unusual as we all know.

The last time this happened was on the right side and I had a valve ready to go but I thought stuff it, I'll cable tie the new valve in under the hood and connect it via the egr connector from the one attached to the engine. I checked that the one in the engine was in the closed position. This was like blanking the valve but avoiding the egr error codes. I don't know if this was a good idea or not but that is why I am here.

The car drove fine for quite some time. We did a trip to Sydney and back from Canberra, no worries. Then we did a trip to Brissy and back, no worries, no faults. Then we did a trip to Melb and on the way at cruising speed the cruise control became unavailable due to a loss of power. No engine fault or codes were showing at this stage (keep in mind I have a very basic freeby code reader, not a proper one). I soon figured out the only way I could get the car to hold 100klms an hour was to drop it back to fifth gear in performance mode. The only thing noticeable was a slight hissing sound on accelaration occasionally. On one of the stops to try and figure out what was going on I noticed the turbo hose from the turbo to the metal resonator (i.e. the boosted side had popped off). When I put it back on and tightened the clamp I was surprised to see it made no difference. I tried to check for leaks with soapy water but I realise now that the system can produce vacuum rather than boost so I don't know if my test was valid. On the way back it wasn't much fun. The car decided to limit us to 80kph an hour and I had to pull over to cycle the ignition to get it slowly up to 100kph again. There was loads of smoke on accelaration. We did manage to get an error code when the engine finally threw an engine light up. P023D MAP - Turbo/SC Boost Sensor A correlation. Prior to this I could see no errors.

When I saw this I pulled over to the nearest town, went in to a repco store and bought a can of MAP sensor cleaner and cleaned the MAP sensor and also the turbo boost sensor. I had nothing to lose. Didn't make a difference.

Further on down the track I pulled over again and I noticed under the engine cover (the one where you have to remove the oil filler cap to remove) a huge amount of soot that was definetly not there when I did the soapy water test or cleaning the map sensor. What had happened was that the air throttle body (plastic y shaped) had blown/melted a hole right next to the right egr port, where the exhaust gas is redirected back to the throttle body. I suspect this is when it started loads of smoke out the back.

I am chasing up a replacement throttle body from a wreckers but I want to know what could have caused this.

Are the EGR and the turbo systems in any way related, I didn't think so but the symptons suggest otherwise.

Would blanking the left egr valve have redirected more and hotter gases to the other side. I have the ford workshop manual but the pictures and explanation are poor. I had assumed that the left hand blank would redirect straight back out to exhaust but does it in fact produce more pressure and hotter gas on the right side when the EGR valve is open.

If you are still reading thanks for hanging in there.

I have checked the turbo actuator by watching it as the ignition is on. It moves and makes that familiar noise. That was my main suspect without understanding much (or enough) about it. I was thinking an overboost occured but I read somewhere else it isn't possible.

I was initially thinking this was a sensor issue but there are no codes indicating this.

My plan is as follows.

- Replace the throttle body.
- See how it runs.
- Clean the soot and oil off the engine and hoses (there is more oil around the turbo hoses than I remember in the past so I am not r- uling out a turbo issue but leaking oil in a turbo was fairly common I thought)
- If I can get it to a garage get a full reading of the error codes and go from there.
- do a boost vacuum leak test if I can figure out how rather than guessing that it has a leak.

Any ideas/thoughts/help would be appreciated.

Steve

**Graeme** · 8th January 2024, 04:51 PM

If you're not already aware of the issue, the inlet manifolds can crack leading to MAP/MAF discrepancies so keep an eye out for sooty deposits on the underside of the engine cover after the throttle body has been replaced.
The exhaust cross-over pipe will ensure that the blocked left EGR valve will increase the pressure in the cross-over pipe and therefore increase the flow through the right EGR valve.

**egr victim** · 9th January 2024, 07:27 AM

Originally Posted by Graeme

If you're not already aware of the issue, the inlet manifolds can crack leading to MAP/MAF discrepancies so keep an eye out for sooty deposits on the underside of the engine cover after the throttle body has been replaced.
The exhaust cross-over pipe will ensure that the blocked left EGR valve will increase the pressure in the cross-over pipe and therefore increase the flow through the right EGR valve.

Thanks Graeme, is there any known weak spots to look for on the manifolds? Would you know what that little air valve is on the intake plenum is for? It looks like a tyre stem with a valve cap on it. Its right where the top boost hose attaches to the air plenum. I was hoping I could test for leaks through that.

**loanrangie** · 9th January 2024, 09:21 AM

2.7 manifolds are not known to split, thats the 3.0. Sounds like the EGR worked its way open causing the hot exhaiust gases to melt the intake Y pipe.
I blanked my EGRS with slip in metal plates that i made from 1.15mm zinc annealed steel, these have slots and just drop in between the valve and the pipe work to the intake.
If you fit plates like this and keep the new working valves plugged in like you have you should be good, my valves were replaced by the previous owner so they were fairly new when i blanked them. I left all the pipework in place and haven't done any software mods, just removed the butterfly in the intake so the vehicle thinks they working and doing their job - done 40k since and apart from the occasional EGR DTC code it runs great.

**Bulletman** · 9th January 2024, 09:22 AM

To my knowledge these engines dont suffer consistent egr issues as you seem to discribe , but the territory set up may be different to the L/R set up . Reading you post makes me think you may have created an issue by putting the r/h egr valve under the bonnet and not connecting it properly if i have read it correctly..
The Y piece on these engines are known to clog up and start restricting the inlet side.. there are some pictures on here somewhere of a nearly completely blocked Y piece, alot of people clean these every 2nd or 3rd service, but be careful as they do get brittle and have been known to break. They do also have orings at the inlet end .
I would start by having a good look at your hoses from the intercooler and the turbo and check they havent delaminated or are in poor condition.

You mention the schrader valve on the intake , the disco doesnt have this, it has a senser (MAP) i think on the top of the Y piece which needs to be cleaned regularly as it gets full of the gunk returned into the Y piece via the egr valves.. the only schrader valve is on the fuel lines which run to the HPFP at the back of the V.

Bulletman

**loanrangie** · 9th January 2024, 12:44 PM

I'm assuming that the schrader valve in question is on the fuel return line and not the intake, i cant see any reason for one there and considering its the same engine with a few changes i'm betting its not there.

Just googled it and top end looks the same.

**egr victim** · 9th January 2024, 07:12 PM

Originally Posted by loanrangie

I'm assuming that the schrader valve in question is on the fuel return line and not the intake, i cant see any reason for one there and considering its the same engine with a few changes i'm betting its not there.

Just googled it and top end looks the same.

I'll try and attach a picture of the schrader valve on the intake and also a picture of the holes in the throttle body. -4148304775404890708.jpg -1104128835703132608.jpg

**egr victim** · 9th January 2024, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by Bulletman

To my knowledge these engines dont suffer consistent egr issues as you seem to discribe , but the territory set up may be different to the L/R set up . Reading you post makes me think you may have created an issue by putting the r/h egr valve under the bonnet and not connecting it properly if i have read it correctly..
The Y piece on these engines are known to clog up and start restricting the inlet side.. there are some pictures on here somewhere of a nearly completely blocked Y piece, alot of people clean these every 2nd or 3rd service, but be careful as they do get brittle and have been known to break. They do also have orings at the inlet end .
I would start by having a good look at your hoses from the intercooler and the turbo and check they havent delaminated or are in poor condition.

You mention the schrader valve on the intake , the disco doesnt have this, it has a senser (MAP) i think on the top of the Y piece which needs to be cleaned regularly as it gets full of the gunk returned into the Y piece via the egr valves.. the only schrader valve is on the fuel lines which run to the HPFP at the back of the V.

Bulletman

I have had quite a few egr issues with this car. I have also cleaned out the ypiece (throttle body) in the past as it was pretty dirty but I haven't cleaned the manifolds which also look dirty. Having said that the fuel economy we get from this car is very good. Hope it stays that way.

**Tombie** · 9th January 2024, 07:18 PM

What year is the territory?

Is it fair to say that 95% of the time it does very short trips?

**BradC** · 9th January 2024, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by egr victim

I'll try and attach a picture of the schrader valve on the intake
-1104128835703132608.jpg

The only thing I could think of there is a test point for measuring boost pressure, but I have no idea why it'd be there.

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