Thread: Moving PTO winch from 2a and fitting it into S3 Stage 1

Well now... you do have some interesting questions.
Unfortunatly what you propose may not work. How do I know this - a long long time ago in a place not too far away I once had a SIII 6cyl, 2 v8's, a LT95 (big lump of a thing with intergral transfer case) and, of course a donor SIII with a PTO winch ( It also was ex-army). I wanted to put the v8 into the SIII, but it just never happened. ALong the way, I did some research on the topic, and measured up a stage 1 v8. The stage 1 differs from a SII ( and III) chassis due to the front crossmember being moved forward ( I got to the stage of welding one into my chassis - looked good) and it is here your problem lies. The PTO winch sits in the area now occupied by the front end of the engine, and radiator. To fit it would require a new front bumper arrangement somthing like the winches you may have seen on the front of Railway fettlers trucks or extensions created by hydraulic units on cement mixers. Even then, you run into problems with the PTO from the series II - it will not fit the LT95 PTO aperture, and the gearset is slightly different. LT95 PTO's exist (There is one for sale in the markets I believe if you go back a few months) but unlike the extension you have, it just is an output flange like the transfer case. You'd have to rig chain drive (Do-able I suppose) and fabricate longer shafts for the drive (because of the different mounting) to make it work. If the whole set up exists for a Stage 1, it will likely be hard to obtain.

Having said that, somebody may just have a stage 1 set up lying around - you never know unless you ask.

But, it may be that a low mount warn perched on a bullbar may be your only viable option. (And before anyone raises the topic, hydraulic winches are expensive)


And, I found a pic of a LHD stage1 fitted with a Thomas winch - although it appears to be electric, you can see how the winch drum sits.




The owner has extended the chassis rails, (again, do-able if you are familar with welding) and that's where the winch sits.

Originally Posted by langy

Well now... you do have some interesting questions.
Unfortunatly what you propose may not work. How do I know this - a long long time ago in a place not too far away I once had a SIII 6cyl, 2 v8's, a LT95 (big lump of a thing with intergral transfer case) and, of course a donor SIII with a PTO winch ( It also was ex-army). I wanted to put the v8 into the SIII, but it just never happened. ALong the way, I did some research on the topic, and measured up a stage 1 v8. The stage 1 differs from a SII ( and III) chassis due to the front crossmember being moved forward ( I got to the stage of welding one into my chassis - looked good) and it is here your problem lies. The PTO winch sits in the area now occupied by the front end of the engine, and radiator. To fit it would require a new front bumper arrangement somthing like the winches you may have seen on the front of Railway fettlers trucks or extensions created by hydraulic units on cement mixers. Even then, you run into problems with the PTO from the series II - it will not fit the LT95 PTO aperture, and the gearset is slightly different. LT95 PTO's exist (There is one for sale in the markets I believe if you go back a few months) but unlike the extension you have, it just is an output flange like the transfer case. You'd have to rig chain drive (Do-able I suppose) and fabricate longer shafts for the drive (because of the different mounting) to make it work. If the whole set up exists for a Stage 1, it will likely be hard to obtain.

Having said that, somebody may just have a stage 1 set up lying around - you never know unless you ask.

But, it may be that a low mount warn perched on a bullbar may be your only viable option. (And before anyone raises the topic, hydraulic winches are expensive)

And you are right about the approach angle ... no good at all, would need bigger tyres to balance that out ;-)

And, I found a pic of a LHD stage1 fitted with a Thomas winch - although I can't tell if it's PTO or electric.

As you can see, there are extensions to the front of the chassis rails, and that's where the winch sits. Won't do your approach angle any good.

Thanks for the input ... looking at the pictures and you pointing out makes me go 'hmm ... of course ... hmmm ... why did I not ... hmm ... hmm' and so on for about five minutes

That will present a challange. It is a shame I wouldn't be able to just fit a Defender bull bar on the Stage1 ... wouldn't to any good for a PTO, but at least it would present a nice to mount for an electrical winch (which I really don't want).

Of course there is the other option of getting a winch mounted on a tray which goes into a hayman reese receiver. I could put those receivers .. let me think ... front, left, right and rear ... maybe center as well if it rolls ... but hold on .. LRs don't roll .. only Japanese ones do

Just because it's difficult dosen't mean it's impossible - I'm sure sombody else will pipe up about it later in the day.

Three things: If you get a stage 1, it should be on gas otherwise it eats a lot of fuel as a tourer.

A defender bar should fit stage 1

And - have you considered using a Trifor?

Originally Posted by langy

Just because it's difficult dosen't mean it's impossible - I'm sure sombody else will pipe up about it later in the day.

Three things: If you get a stage 1, it should be on gas otherwise it eats a lot of fuel as a tourer.

A defender bar should fit stage 1

And - have you considered using a Trifor?

Langy, you are up quite late. I am in the US at the moment - 1pm here - what is your excuse ;-)

Well .. the Stage 1I am looking at has a second tank under the driver seat and I also think that LPG is not such a good idea as you can't get LPG in remote areas. I used to drive a V8 truck which gave you 23l/100k ... I am sure this baby will do better.

The Trifor is on the bottom of my list (anything which can't be operated with a beer in one hand doesn't feel right).

Originally Posted by langy

Just because it's difficult dosen't mean it's impossible - I'm sure sombody else will pipe up about it later in the day.

Just to make sure I understand that correctly ... I am going to have the same problem with a Bamford winch. Right?

Would this be legal here? I guess if the license plate gets moved somewhere different. It is attached by roughly 10 bolts to the chasis

I looked at fitting a S11 pto to a Lt95 gearbox. And decided it was to hard. Splines and everything are different.

Also be aware if you find a PTO for a Lt95. They do exist, that there is two types, defender/county (would work for you) and range rover. The trouble with range rover one is that the offset shaft for the drive to front is in the wrong place and would run above the passengers floor. Otherwise you should be able to get the shaft to the front for the winch ok. My old S11 had a winch mount for the thomas that went between the chassis and the bumper bar anyway. Would have worked on a stage one i think. Moved the bumper bar about 10 inches forward.

Can't see why that hydraulic would be illegal as long as you put the number plate on there somewhere. Thinking of using the powersteering to drive it? Hydraulic winches or motors aren't cheap.

WR

After last weekend, I'm not too keen on hydraulic winches. I was helping some people from Overlander magazine I think do testing on the loads involved with recovering a vehicle. One of the test vehicles, a 100 Series Cruiser, had an Ox 10000 pound hydraulic winch run off the power steering. We bogged the thing up to the axles in sand and then used a load cell to measure the force required to winch it out. The winch stalled at a bit over 3 tonnes. We decided to run the entire winch cable out, so we would be winching off the drum. After doing this, we only managed 1.5 tonnes. We then ran a snatch block, with the load cell between the snatch block and the vehicle we were using as an anchor, and again only managed about 1.5 tonnes, which meant that the winch was only pulling about 750kg. We were all quite stunned by the results! I have since found out, that as the hydraulic fluid heats up, it drastically reduces the pulling capacity of the winch. So if you intend to do a lot of serious winching, and want to go down the hydraulic route, I would seriously look at having the largest volume of oil possible with oil coolers.

And just for the record, it took 3.7 tonnes to pull the vehicle out with an electric winch.