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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2
are you sure of that ? That seems miles too cheap, more like Heavy Track (33mm piston) prices.
BTW, the Raids only have 8" travel, even the long ones, they just use a longer body for 50mm lifts to give sufficient droop. It appears that you can run a longer bodied shock on the rear (or drop the mounts within reason ) without fear of going metal to metal on bump.
83GBP for the raid - see link below.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick130
frogsisland4x4 - Browse
90-5401 Koni Raid Shock Absorber
Adjustable twin tube hydraulic shock absorber Product Details...
£83.00
and that price includes VAT ??Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael2
If you confirm those prices please let me know, although freight out of the UK is ridiculous ATM, much cheaper from the US.
I need new rears and was going to order some 2.5" King or SAW 10" travel remote reservoir shocks. I've just ordered a new Nitrogen regulator for re-valving/fiddling, but that Koni price is just crazy.......
BTW, I dug out the travel specs and they are 607mm open (as you already posted), 391mm closed.
They also use an internal hydraulic rebound stop.
I'm still awaiting their reply. I asked about VAT with aview to getting a VAT exemption to help offset the freight. I'll keep you posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by rick130
You NEED to allow for at least 10mm of bumpstop compression before the shock bottoms or you will do your dough on the first big washout you hit.
IMHO the only real solution is RAISING the top mount and using something like the Procomp 923573 or similar.
The unfortunate reality is that without raising the top mount (and using a longer shock) you wont increase your overall travel at all and risk breaking the shock on compression by simply bolting in a longer shock. Unless you extend the bumpstops which eats up the extra down travel you've just gained. A standard shock has almost the same travel (207mm) as all the shocks mentioned in this thread, it just gives more safety margin in compression.
The cheapest option is to put in a softer spring and convert some of the wasted compression travel to down travel and get a better ride and a more stable vehicle thrown in for free!
To me, the ideal spring rate for off road use is one which allows the bump stops to just touch when the vehicle is cross axled while carrying your intended load. Most aftermarket springs wont allow this to happen and thus actually reduce off-road ability as they're designed for lift and/or more load capacity.
I agree, 5mm isn't enough safety margin crossed up, especially considering the weight you are intending to carry sometimes (assuming no binding). My Disco empty would squish easily 10mm (and more if I need some inertia), hell I've had Sierra's that much and they are only flyweights. I'd just be really concerned spending good money on good product and it's not quite right and breaks that's all.
Altering the mount or packing the bumpstop is the same net result for the shock, but one method will give more compression one will give more droop(your goal).
fender bump stops solid rubber block, not a shaped cone ala disco?
5mm should pull it up, if you are worried slide in some ply or plate steel with longer bolts?
Steve
nope, you need to allow for 20mm bump stop compression on a Defender. I'm speaking from experience here. This is how much I've found the fronts to compress.Quote:
Originally Posted by roverrescue
while broadly true, most vehicles also do need to carry a load.Quote:
Originally Posted by mark2
If I had a purely off road oriented vehicle, you would be looking for equal wheel rates, front and rear (wheel rate is spring rate divided by motion ratio)
This keeps the body nice and level while the suspension does its thing.
As to damper length, raising the mounts is the only way to fit the long travel Billies, sorry, didn't think to mention it. The same with any thing longer than around 610mm in overall length.
It also appears that dropping the rear mounts is a feasible way of increasing travel with OE stroke shocks. The Poms do it all the time and I haven't heard of anyone going metal to metal yet.
The Koni Raid mentioned above is 40mm longer compressed than stock and can be fitted without using longer bump stops, so they must be fairly confident no damage can occur, and they are designed primarily as an off road race shock that fits OE mounts.
Also, as the rear shocks are canted forward, around 8.5" stroke will give 9.5-10" wheel travel (haven't measured the motion ratio to check exactly) whereas you need a 10" travel shock on the front to get 10" travel.
I went the longer stroke/raise the tower route years ago on the front as to my mind it's the only practical way of increasing travel, but it appears you can fudge a little on the back and get away with it.
I've had shocks up to 650mm open length (388 closed) on the back over the years, but with a 130 with the spring rates I run I've never ever been in danger of getting near the bump stops, let alone into them.
I've never actually measured the rear up, (shock motion ratio to spring, shock length when @ bump stop, etc) so if anyone has some numbers to show I'm talking out of my rear orifice, I'm happy to stand corrected.
I found this chart of Raid pt #'s and Open and Closed lengths
Thought it might be useful seeing as quite a few of us use TLC 80 Series front dampers...
http://usera.imagecave.com/tdi-rick/...ckRaid.bmp.jpg