Thread: Now I'm REALLY stuck!

I wonder if the cold start injector is dumping too much fuel in. Try disconnecting it. It's on the RH side of the plenum chamber.

I suppose you could remove it, blank off the hole, and just watch the injector.

Hi Paul

If you don't have spark, then you will have the wet plug syndrom.
So .. Check to see if you have spark .. and how old is that coil .. and test the volts to the positive feed line of coil (battery line to coil)

Mike

Thanks for the suggestions, I had tried disconnectiong the cold start injector, but no difference.

I also had checked the spark, looks very healthy.

How easy is it to remove the injectors, and is there any way to test them at home?

Is there something that could cause the EFI to run super-rich intermittently?

Cheers,

Paul

Originally Posted by Wilbur

Thanks for the suggestions, I had tried disconnectiong the cold start injector, but no difference.

I also had checked the spark, looks very healthy.

How easy is it to remove the injectors, and is there any way to test them at home?

Is there something that could cause the EFI to run super-rich intermittently?

Cheers,

Paul

1: use a multi meter to see what voltage is going to coil

2: Injectors are easy to remove
The injectors are held down by the piped fuel rail via bolts on brackets to manifold .... so remove bolts
Injectors are held to rail in place via a square clip ... so just pull them back via pliers

NOTE: can't remember if you have to remove some of the throttle body ... but all is easy to do

3: When removed / You can see the pin & hole of the injector visually and from memory the injector only needs 3 volts to operate / so use a battery to make it work .... If you have the "Haines" manual, it will tell you the correct injector volts in the "fuel injection section". DO NOT HOOK UP A 12volt BATTERY TO INJECTOR ... CHECK MANUAL FIRST ... if you don't have this manual or section then just post me & i will find it for you...

4: To test the fuel flow ... you would need to run a fuel pump pressure of petrol through it & then use a battery to open & close it .... HAVE NEVER DONE THIS MYSELF .... SO CAUTION REQUIRED

The only way to really check injectors is to send them to a injector specialist

LAST BUT NOT LEAST .... Do you have access to another ECU (computer)
If so, then borrow it & see if it makes a difference

Hi Wilbur .. I sent a PM on this subject to you

Don't blame the injectors just yet

I keep talking about Volts to coil. This is because RRC suffer volt issues. You could have this problem.

Try to start your car in the following way

1: Turn key to on position ... wait for electrics / 3secs ... then turn motor for 2secs ... STOP ... TURN KEY OFF

2: Turn key to on position ... wait for electrics / 3secs ... then turn motor for 2secs while pumping accelerator... STOP ... TURN KEY OFF

3: you might hear the motor go "Pop" ... a sign of life

4: Repeat point 2 in various ways / The key is to pump or open accelerator & short busts of starter motor// The car should start

OK, so whats going on here?
The starter motor is taking all the power and is leaving nothing for the ECU & coil
Adding accelerator is not adding fuel ... but adding air as the injectors are flooding the spark plugs

Look in the Range Rover section thread ... R/R 1990 Electronic Dizzy .... the 5th answer on page 1, i talk about solving volt issues ... If the above comments work, then I think you have the same problem

Best of luck
Mike

If the injection system is the early flaper type id be lookin at the flaper Air Flow Meter it may be geting stuck try find another to swap and try in there or try cleanng yours as this will make it run rich and if its the later 14cux system id also be looking at the airflow meter as its the first thing to tell the ECU on how much fuel to deliver then next step would be the Throtle Position Sensor (TPS) as its the next thing in line to tell the ECU how much fuel to deliver ...

If its the old system with the flaper Air Flow Meter (AFM) id be geusing the flap is geting stuck in the open position easy test would be to start it with foot on loud pedal buryed to tha floor to give it he required amount of air to fuel mix its needing if this works and she fires to life id be lookin at the AFM...

Originally Posted by mike 90 RR

Hi Wilbur .. I sent a PM on this subject to you

Don't blame the injectors just yet

I keep talking about Volts to coil. This is because RRC suffer volt issues. You could have this problem.

Try to start your car in the following way

1: Turn key to on position ... wait for electrics / 3secs ... then turn motor for 2secs ... STOP ... TURN KEY OFF

2: Turn key to on position ... wait for electrics / 3secs ... then turn motor for 2secs while pumping accelerator... STOP ... TURN KEY OFF

3: you might hear the motor go "Pop" ... a sign of life

4: Repeat point 2 in various ways / The key is to pump or open accelerator & short busts of starter motor// The car should start

OK, so whats going on here?
The starter motor is taking all the power and is leaving nothing for the ECU & coil
Adding accelerator is not adding fuel ... but adding air as the injectors are flooding the spark plugs

Look in the Range Rover section thread ... R/R 1990 Electronic Dizzy .... the 5th answer on page 1, i talk about solving volt issues ... If the above comments work, then I think you have the same problem

Best of luck
Mike

Hi Mike,

Thank you very much for your wealth of information. I continue to be so impressed by the generous help given on this site.

I have just spent my lunch break fiddling, and have tried all you suggested, but I think I have already rooted the plugs by excessive flooding with petrol. I measure about 11 volts at the coil while cranking, and there is a healthy looking spark at the coil.

I got no results at all with the procedure you described, so I removed a plug and found it saturated. I cleaned it as best I could, but could not get a spark from it. I measured a leakage of 67K ohms! No wonder it didn't spark. I then checked all the other plugs, and found 5 of them to be similar, one measured about 1 megohm and one measured open circuit as one would expect.

Because plugs are soaked on both banks, I am assuming this means that it is not a stuck injector - unless there are two stuck open!

I will buy a new set of plugs tomorrow and start again (no pun intended). This time I will disconnect the coolant temperature sensor and fit a 1K resistor simulating a temperature of about 50 degrees, and disconnect the cold start injector.

If the plugs are wet after cranking, I will have to assume the ECU has curled up its toes.

If not, I will replace the disconnected items one at a time and repeat the check.

I have already checked the flapper, and it moves freely. The resistance measurements vary smoothly, pretty much as specified in the manual.

Does this sound like a reasonable way of proceeding? Lucky I have other cars !!!!

Thanks again for everything,

Cheers,

Paul

Originally Posted by lokka

If the injection system is the early flaper type id be lookin at the flaper Air Flow Meter it may be geting stuck try find another to swap and try in there or try cleanng yours as this will make it run rich and if its the later 14cux system id also be looking at the airflow meter as its the first thing to tell the ECU on how much fuel to deliver then next step would be the Throtle Position Sensor (TPS) as its the next thing in line to tell the ECU how much fuel to deliver ...

If its the old system with the flaper Air Flow Meter (AFM) id be geusing the flap is geting stuck in the open position easy test would be to start it with foot on loud pedal buryed to tha floor to give it he required amount of air to fuel mix its needing if this works and she fires to life id be lookin at the AFM...

Hi Lokka,

Thanks for the suggestion. The flapper moves freely, and the resistance changes smoothly pretty much as it says in the manual. I am still looking for the TPS! Can't do much at lunchtime!

Cheers,

Paul