Thread: Powerchip

Bruce wants to rechip mine.

A chip is quite appropriate to a GEMS as GEMS have integrated fuel control and timing.
The Australian spec is low compression so probably "Rest of World" as Rover put it. This usually means they are tuned to run without detonation on 87octane.
So some gains will be made but not as great as on 14CUX, simply because the skills of the car makers increased greatly in the 90s and the GEMS was one of the most advanced.
Look for 10%.
It really doesn't matter a lot with an adaptive system whether the tune is individual to a car ( as with an interceptor), as the tuner will never take timing right to the edge , as they need to leave a safety margin for bad fuel and do not want the liability of holed pistons.

In a modified chip, The programmer will tailor the timing to the fuel available in the particular market, eg 91 octane in Australia, and the knock sensors provide safety from detonation.
Probably the outcome will be similar.
Have a look at the Autospeed site and search Powerchip and there is an article on the Powerchip for the new Holden V6 where they picked up 11%.

By the way, one of the reasons manufacturers drop out low end torque is to meet NOx emissions regulations, so basically when the chips/interceptors increase low speed torque, the tuner is probably making the car non ADR compliant, but this probably would only be detected in a full test, not a roadside or RWC test if there was such a thing.
Regards Philip A

Originally Posted by DISCOBEAR

Hi Guys,
As I said in my earlier I pruchased a Haltech Interceptor 2 from Graeme Cooper and found the below Dyno stats/increases.

obviously have not had time to detrmine my fuel consumption but when dynoed I recieved a 30Kw and about 30-40Nm power increase at the wheels. This sort of increase is certainly noticable on the road and the low down torque (idle-1700rpm) is greatly increased.
The Haltech unit is a complete Management system ($1200 Incl. install, configs and Dyno)that plugs into the existing ECU, which also means that when I sell the vehicle I can just unplug the unit and add re-install it into my next vehicle. I have a High compresssion 4.0 and as I commented before the low down torque is a complete transformation. We did a Dyno last week on the stock engine which produced 68Kw's at the rear wheels which I am told by Graeme Cooper was a little on the low side. I checked engine compression and all clearances which were all well within recommended specifications (engine has done 58000Klm's).
I have been told that the ECU upgrade that is supplied by Bruce Davis is just re-mapped chip and is not configured to your indiviual engine tolerances so I think the extra money is worth it.
I will let you know the fuel consumption figure at a later date.

Cheers
Glenn

I seriously dont believe that you could get a genuine increase of 30wheel kw by chipping a 3.9, even if you are basically running a different complete engine management system.

Are you sure they didnt take a plug lead off before doing the first run!

I wonder what the difference would have been if they had just give it a bit of a service, and then rerun it.

Was the increase of 30kw over what the first run was or the factory output figure? If so what was the actual total output at the end?

Rgds
Pete

Originally Posted by Psimpson7

I seriously dont believe that you could get a genuine increase of 30wheel kw by chipping a 3.9, even if you are basically running a different complete engine management system.

Are you sure they didnt take a plug lead off before doing the first run!

I wonder what the difference would have been if they had just give it a bit of a service, and then rerun it.

Was the increase of 30kw over what the first run was or the factory output figure? If so what was the actual total output at the end?

Rgds
Pete

I had 2 dyno tests done. 1st was 67Kw at the wheels before any work had been done. 2nd was after the Haltech Interceptor had been installed and configured which read a peak of exactly 97Kw. I was their during the test so I know that it is not BS and trust me I know I got the extra HP when driving. It is a completly different viehicle when driving now. Hope this answers your question

P.S. - It is a high compression 4.0 NOT a 3.9

Originally Posted by Psimpson7

I seriously dont believe that you could get a genuine increase of 30wheel kw by chipping a 3.9, even if you are basically running a different complete engine management system.

Are you sure they didnt take a plug lead off before doing the first run!

I wonder what the difference would have been if they had just give it a bit of a service, and then rerun it.

Was the increase of 30kw over what the first run was or the factory output figure? If so what was the actual total output at the end?

Rgds
Pete

Hey Pete,

Grimace had a Haltec (i think) installed into his 3.9. 52kw when he bought it (in need of a good tune), 66kw with good exhaust, service and tune to standard specs, 83.2kw with the Haltec.

Check his members ride section for the dyno graph

Does anyone here have an Efi/engine wiring diagram for the 3.9L Discos?

I'm just in the process of looking into controlling my engine with an LS1 ECU. I was thinking about something simple like a microtech, but essentially, I just want my car to run right and get better economy. Technologically speaking, the LS1 ECu will give me all the mod cons like closed loop and individual coil packs.

Just need the factory diagram so I can mull over the two of them for a while to see if it'll be as simple as mate mate who'll be tuning it says it will.

How do you plan tp run coil packs? you will need a crank trigger with a ref/sync. Im pretty sure the ls1 ecu runs a 36-1 trigger with crank referencing. You can buy a 36-1 trigger from trigger wheels in the uk, they are designed for a rover v8 and bolt straight up. If you want to run 8 individual coil packs you are DEFINATLY going to need ref+sync triggering so the engine know which cylinder is firing and crank postion.

Close loop is only really useful if you have catalytic convertors. An N/A engine can comfortably run leaner than closed loop will allow (ie 15.5:1 afrs at cruise)

For my money i would go down the seperate ecu route. The $'s will quickly get gobbled up by the time you get the LS1, 8 coil packs, Crank and cam sensors (you could use a modified distributor to provide the crank ref signal but you need to adapt it to suit what ever sensor the LS1 ecu needs, ditto the crank sensor.You will also need the dizzy to drive the oil pump) and dont forget tuning. I assume you would get VCM suite of something similar to retune the ECU to the smaller rover motor. I would probably change the injector to a later style as well. This will help with poer and fuel economy.

For my $'s i would grab the wolf 3d ver4 thats one EBay for $500, coil packs,ignitors and crank trigger ($500) and misc bits and piece (wiring, relays etc.$200) and tuning $500

My 4.6 RRC is putting out 140kw@the wheels and 385nm and returns between 16.0 and 17.0ltr to the hundred (in open loop) around town and around 15.0 to 15.5 on the highway with the Wolf ecu running 4 coil packs in wasted spark config. I change to bosch injectors from and xr6 turbo and this has given me much more stable afrs. (13.3 at WOT, 14.7 up too 60%load and 15.5 at cruise.)

shoot me a pm if you need any info about setting up an aftermarket ecu.

The factory wiring wont be much good for any of the aftermarket systems as the injectors are bank fired and the igntion system is completly independant of the fuel system.

Originally Posted by Lucus

How do you plan tp run coil packs? you will need a crank trigger with a ref/sync. Im pretty sure the ls1 ecu runs a 36-1 trigger with crank referencing. You can buy a 36-1 trigger from trigger wheels in the uk, they are designed for a rover v8 and bolt straight up. If you want to run 8 individual coil packs you are DEFINATLY going to need ref+sync triggering so the engine know which cylinder is firing and crank postion.

Close loop is only really useful if you have catalytic convertors. An N/A engine can comfortably run leaner than closed loop will allow (ie 15.5:1 afrs at cruise)

For my money i would go down the seperate ecu route. The $'s will quickly get gobbled up by the time you get the LS1, 8 coil packs, Crank and cam sensors (you could use a modified distributor to provide the crank ref signal but you need to adapt it to suit what ever sensor the LS1 ecu needs, ditto the crank sensor.You will also need the dizzy to drive the oil pump) and dont forget tuning. I assume you would get VCM suite of something similar to retune the ECU to the smaller rover motor. I would probably change the injector to a later style as well. This will help with poer and fuel economy.

For my $'s i would grab the wolf 3d ver4 thats one EBay for $500, coil packs,ignitors and crank trigger ($500) and misc bits and piece (wiring, relays etc.$200) and tuning $500

My 4.6 RRC is putting out 140kw@the wheels and 385nm and returns between 16.0 and 17.0ltr to the hundred (in open loop) around town and around 15.0 to 15.5 on the highway with the Wolf ecu running 4 coil packs in wasted spark config. I change to bosch injectors from and xr6 turbo and this has given me much more stable afrs. (13.3 at WOT, 14.7 up too 60%load and 15.5 at cruise.)

shoot me a pm if you need any info about setting up an aftermarket ecu.

The factory wiring wont be much good for any of the aftermarket systems as the injectors are bank fired and the igntion system is completly independant of the fuel system.

Yeah, that all makes sense and as you mentioned in the last bit about the factory wiring, it's more about being able to jut simply power the new ECU and provide the dash etc with what it needs. As far as the outlay the the ECU and accessories itself, I can get one for next to nothing. I am keen to know though about the factory injectors as opposed to the BA ones you used. Mainly because my other car is fitted with a BA engine now and I have a few sets of non turbo injectors kicking around.

Crank trigger definitely on the cards too. I've had to fit them before on cars I'd converted to run Delco systems, so it shouldn't be too hard. Any links for that trigger you mentioned from the UK?

I had an exchabge ecu from Bruce Davis (Melb) and cant believe the difference esp when towing the camper. Economy is about the same but OOOOOHHHH the power