Thread: New Defender Strange Engine Noise - Paranoia?

I find it hard to believe that water in the fuel is the problem.After ten years I have only got water in my fuel twice so I can't believe you all have somehow got water in there at the same time.Toyota are having similar problems in some of their engines but the problem lies in the fact it is so random.For me it is the blend of the fuel as all these engines are made to pass polution standards first so they are very picky as to what they like.Remember we have only just got motors here that have been used in europe for years because they wouldn't run on our fuel. Pat

Originally Posted by PAT303

I find it hard to believe that water in the fuel is the problem

.After ten years I have only got water in my fuel twice so

I can't believe you all have somehow got water in there at the same time

.Toyota are having similar problems in some of their engines but the problem lies in the fact it is so random.

For me it is the blend of the fuel

as all these engines are made to pass polution standards first so they are very picky as to what they like.Remember we have only just got motors here that have been used in europe for years because they wouldn't run on our fuel. Pat

and as been stated by landrover these engines are designed to take a variety of fuels to deal with other countries where fuels are of far less quality.....than europe and other well developed countries...

and as for your quotes above we have a fuel anlyasis report saying that IT IS WATER IN THE FUEL and quite a large amount.......and not just water bacterial growth!!

so for our case pat i think your fuel blend idea is not the case here

I know that we Defender people come here for specific info but we are not alone:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-zone/55...er-diesel.html


That's the problem with silos

I see this as a fundamental engineering issue (Using Risk Management techniques).

The risk is that water in fuel will (to use Solmanic's terminology) result in a "common fail" situation. This is a risk with severe consequences. The likelihood of this happening given the fact that the Defender is likley to be used in adverse conditions is also high. This is a "red zone" situation!

So look at the the risks and the appropriate responses

Risk: Breather location results in water ingress.
Response: relocate

Risk: Water in fuel supply
Response:Separate water from fuel by way of Filter

Risk: Water enters fuel delivery system.
Response: Detect by means of technology or observation.

Risk: Water is detected but not easily dealt with.
Response: Locate filter so that water can be removed easily.

This is crude but I hope that my point is made.

I think that the bean counters and the engineers have failed.

The design needs an holistic review...just relocating the breather is a knee jerk solution that just deals with one factor.

The bottom line is that in a market where sales numbers are already under pressure from rising fuel prices, the last thing Land Rover would want is their new flagship vehicle being labelled as too delicate for work in the real world! Poor response to these problems for one or more of us (customers) is going to result in us (the customers) rubbishing their product in public, no matter how fanatical we may be about the marque.

As boggo said, Land Rover's response will determine whether this problem becomes a stain on their reputation.

Originally Posted by one_iota

I

Risk: Water is detected but not easily dealt with.
Response: Locate filter so that water can be removed easily.

I went to change the fuel filter on my 110 last night because paranoia has started to get the better of me. I scoured through the owners manual looking for any special instructions on changing the fuel filter, nothing. OK then, log onto the LR GTR website ( http://www.landrovertechinfo.com/extlrprod/market.jsp ) and give them $14USD and discover that it is necessary to bleed the low pressure fuel system using a special tool in order to not only change the filter, but to also simply drain any water also. Great.



Why is it that in order to carry out a relativley simple task it is necessary to have a LR special tool?? Couldn't they have simply fitted a hand pump in the vehicle like every other diesel engined vehicle I've ever owned????

Tim

How come there isn't broken down vehicles everywhere?.I cleaned out the water trap in my defender a week ago,first time in six months and there was hardly a drop.It can't all be down to water.As for the LR statement about being able to go everywhere if they made it for that why use an engine that has more electrics than Dick Smith?.How is a farmer or bush dweller going to get any modern diesel going?.Most dealer mechanics struggle.That line about fuel tolerance is BS.You don't get V8 power out of a sub 4ltr TD with ''fuel tolerance''.As I also said Toyota are having the same problem.That's alot of water. Pat

Originally Posted by solmanic

The bottom line is that in a market where sales numbers are already under pressure from rising fuel prices, the last thing Land Rover would want is their new flagship vehicle being labelled as too delicate for work in the real world! Poor response to these problems for one or more of us (customers) is going to result in us (the customers) rubbishing their product in public, no matter how fanatical we may be about the marque.

As boggo said, Land Rover's response will determine whether this problem becomes a stain on their reputation.

Yes I forgot to add the spin merchants to the three amigos..Engineers, Bean Counters and Marketeers. The organisation needs leadership to justify the rhetoric..will Tata do this???

No more or less than Leyland, BMW, or Ford I suspect.

True customer focus is required...we are the reason they exist so let's apply pressure.

Originally Posted by PAT303

How come there isn't broken down vehicles everywhere?.I cleaned out the water trap in my defender a week ago,first time in six months and there was hardly a drop.It can't all be down to water.As for the LR statement about being able to go everywhere if they made it for that why use an engine that has more electrics than Dick Smith?.How is a farmer or bush dweller going to get any modern diesel going?.Most dealer mechanics struggle.That line about fuel tolerance is BS.You don't get V8 power out of a sub 4ltr TD with ''fuel tolerance''.As I also said Toyota are having the same problem.That's alot of water. Pat

well like i said pat and you can keep dressing it up with toyota all you like i have paper work that says so.

and the point that you made in regards to why aren't they dropping down every where, the problem yes is more evident in the uk, australia simply doesn't have the same volume of cars as they do so of course the problem isnt going to be more evident.

why does ever car have to show up with the problem?

there are lots of uncontrollable factors. where you drive your car? is it parked inside or outside? do you live in a dusty, muddy, or wet part of the country? i could go on!! all of which would have bearing on whether the problem may or may not arise