Hydrogen Generator

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

lets not knock this too hard. (but I'm not saying dont knock this particular incarnation of it)

of all the crud thats out there this at least has groundings in reality..

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Groundings in reality for the process, but the claims are usually exaggerated 10x. 20-30% fuel saving really is 2-3%. Which is what you can get just by advancing injection timing.

Does gas fumigation effectively advance the injection timing? Why yes it does.:angel:

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

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lets look at it this way..

back when generators were done generator sytle and not alternator style would you have believe that you could have gotten more power out of the same size tube of spinny bits just by rearranging them a bit and adding say 10w of electricity to part of it...
.......

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The point about alternators compared to generators is simply that you can spin them a lot faster because the windings are circumferential rather than largely axial - if you try to spin a generator too fast, you will throw the windings out of the slots in the armature, since the only thing holding them there is varnish and a few ties plus the stiffness of the wire; with an alternator, the centrifugal force is countered by the tensile strength of the wire. Which may not be all that high for copper, but is a bit higher than that for varnish!

This is where the extra power comes from - turning them faster, a basic process known since the early 1800s!

John

ok but lets look at the potential of this one.. of all the ones out there this is the only one that could actually deliver whats promised...

Im not ready to kick this to the kerb as readily as I do posts about hiclones increasing the performance of turbo charged diesel engines for example.

look at all the other things that people scoffed at way back when...

humans travelling faster than 36mph? immposible

humans flying in heavier than air machines? never going to happen?

a diesel engined vehicle doing more than 10k/l and capable of more than 140kph?

A diesel engined vehicle winning lemans?

more than 512k of memory?


the thing to remember with this one, is we're not trying to beat entropy, just get a little closer to it.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

The point about alternators compared to generators is simply that you can spin them a lot faster because the windings are circumferential rather than largely axial - if you try to spin a generator too fast, you will throw the windings out of the slots in the armature, since the only thing holding them there is varnish and a few ties plus the stiffness of the wire; with an alternator, the centrifugal force is countered by the tensile strength of the wire. Which may not be all that high for copper, but is a bit higher than that for varnish!

This is where the extra power comes from - turning them faster, a basic process known since the early 1800s!

John

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true enough, but put yourself in the shoes of the trogloditic engineering societies of the day...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blknight.aus

ok but lets look at the potential of this one.. of all the ones out there this is the only one that could actually deliver whats promised...

Im not ready to kick this to the kerb as readily as I do posts about hiclones increasing the performance of turbo charged diesel engines for example.

look at all the other things that people scoffed at way back when...

humans travelling faster than 36mph? immposible

But never held by anyone who seriously thought about it. Higher speed travel than this was envisaged by the Lunar Society members such as Erasmus Darwin i the second half of the eighteenth century.

humans flying in heavier than air machines? never going to happen?

A widely held view, mostly by those with a vested interest in airships - but heavier than air machines in the form of gliders had been proposed as far back as antiquity, and actually flew by the mid nineteenth century. An airline was actually floated in London in the 1830s, and got quite a few subscribers - not helped by the fact that the company principals, unlike their engineer, were crooks!

a diesel engined vehicle doing more than 10k/l and capable of more than 140kph?

I doubt this was ever in the same boat

A diesel engined vehicle winning lemans?

And from memory the rules were changed to stop it happening again! But both of these could have been forecast by the Napier Nomad aeroengine of the 1940s.

more than 512k of memory?

Increases in memory size and decreases in cost were predicted at doubling and 50% every two years by Moore's Law, published in 1965, when 4k of memory was probably considered large, so increases above 512 certainly should have been expected.


the thing to remember with this one, is we're not trying to beat entropy, just get a little closer to it.

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I don't think any of your examples are comparable!

John

In NZ we used to have a big bird called the "Haast Eagle". This sucker was big enough to carry away small children.

Does that count as humans flying on something heavier than air.:D

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haast%27s_Eagle"]Haast's Eagle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Giant_Haasts_eagle_attacking_New_Zealand_moa. jpg" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2d/Giant_Haasts_eagle_attacking_New_Zealand_moa.jpg/220px-Giant_Haasts_eagle_attacking_New_Zealand_moa.jpg"@ @AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/2/2d/Giant_Haasts_eagle_attacking_New_Zealand_moa.jpg/220px-Giant_Haasts_eagle_attacking_New_Zealand_moa.jpg[/ame]

... and who would ever fall for the silly idea that you could fly a STEAM powered aircraft !!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nw6NFmcnW-8]YouTube - The Besler Steam Plane[/ame]

The Besler Steam-Engined Flight

[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steam_aircraft"]Steam aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Aero-stub_img.svg" class="image"><img alt="Stub icon" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/44/Aero-stub_img.svg/20px-Aero-stub_img.svg.png"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/4/44/Aero-stub_img.svg/20px-Aero-stub_img.svg.png[/ame]

James in Gosnells

My old boss got all excited about this hydrogen generator stuff and went out and bought a unit. We went and fitted it to his 80 series tojo diesel. The unit was made by some bloke in perth that he met along the way and yes it did produce hydrogen but in my opinion nowhere near as much that would be required to make any difference. The result was as I suspected it made no noticable differance just added an extra risk of an explosion under the bonnet.

... I might know a bloke.... (a West-Oz political joke...) - who has made a few Hydrogen generators.

- What did this one look like ?

4 or so years ago a mate who had a 4.6 in his Defender hopped over the fence to have a chat about this very thing.

He was sick of his fuel bills and wanted to try something to drop them.

I explained how they worked, the drawbacks and the possible positives and he decided to buy one and see.

Unit delivered and its a bit of 90mm PVC with caps at both ends, 2 HD leads and a small hose outlet, seemed simple enough and the science was solid so we plumbed it in and ran a hose to his air intake.

This is what we found,

The unit runs hot, hot enough to distort the lid.

It does produce flammable gas that "Popped" when ignited.

It (One cannister) sucks a lot of current, enough to noticeably load up the alternator although only one of the batteries under his seat was hooked up.

You dont get far before you have to top up the cannister with water.

Dry cannisters get VERY hot.

Economy wise there was a small reduction in fuel consumption but I still think it was due to his paying attention to his driving more than the Hydrogen cell and due to its size, current draw and design flaws the unit was removed and he converted his wagon to straight LPG.

Interesting experiment but a fail on a few counts and $120 wasted.