Engine swap 300tdi to Isuzu 4bd1

**Bush65** · 22nd December 2009, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by big guy

Where do I say that or even come close to saying that?

Bush65, I just pointed out what I found was going on whilst actually being there, living and breathing and seeing what is going on 1st hand. Speaking to locals and driving the cars etc.
Where do I even mention taxes?

I am not a fan of the Isuzu but do agree its a good motor, especially if you are driving a small truck.

If you had mentioned taxes and how, in Europe the greatly influence the preference for small engines, then I would not have posed that rhetorical question.

The original post and topic of this thread is about swapping a 300Tdi to Isuzu 4BD1 and had only questioned about issues from using a different year engine to the original.

Ive been toying with the (long term) idea of getting a worn out 130 & swapping over the engine/drivetrain from my Isuzu.
Am I right in assuming there are no ADR - pollution issues with Vicroads as its a Diesel? I assume that is the basis for requiring a same or later year engine?
Thanks,

1. DeeJay (original poster) already has a 110 Isuzu - so he already knows the pros and cons.

2. He would like a 130 - there could be numerous good reasons for this.

Those 2 points are implied in the original post.

I'm guessing like me, for the intended use he would prefer the Isuzu engine and drivetrain (which he already has), to the 300Tdi that would be in the 130.

He would know what fuel economy to expect from the 4Bd1 - in a loaded 130 it would be little different, maybe better than a 300Tdi.

I have to say from my experience, revving the tits off a 300Tdi in low gears to manage a speed below the speed limit for hour after hour towing a light load into a head wind, and holding up trucks, or not being able to overtake grey nomads towing caravans without using crazy speeds on a down hill section, were not appealing.

Europe has different issues to Australia in respect of desirable engine characteristics.

Technology applied to diesel engines has taken great strides in recent years that have left the 300Tdi and 4BD1 behind. IMHO they have left the 2.4 litre engine in the current Defender behind - I know the owners are happy with the change from the old TD5, but it is still far from the current technology yardstick.

But as far as an engine swap for a 130 with a 300Tdi, a 4BD1 that is already in you possession will transform the 130 into a very strong, reliable and capable vehicle.

To swap a 300Tdi for a small, newer technology diesel will present may hurdles, not to mention a huge amount of time, effort and expense, all for no more capability or reliability than the 4BD1.

BTW you said in an earlier post:

UK seldom had the big motor, as in the Isuzu, even their RRC's were fitted with 300 tdi's and same in South Africa.

I can think of many engines in UK vehicles that had/have engines of similar or larger displacement to the 3.9 litre Isuzu. We need look no further than the 3.5, 3.9, 4.2 & 4.6 litre engines in Land Rovers for just one marque.

**big guy** · 22nd December 2009, 11:23 PM

Thanks for that, it makes perfect sense in many ways.

Go to the U.K and see for yourself.
Most RRC's and P38's are diesel.
Petrol is too expensive and they have for a long time now had a diesel affliction, diesel is also cheaper, much cheaper. Which it should be also.

I agree with what you are saying and makes sense but its just not factual.

In the next ten years we could very well see a revolution in car registration and roadworthyness.
If motors do not comply or cars are getting too old we could be slapped a huge registration premium to make us get more efficient cars.
The end of the V8 is near I fear and the end of big motors in generel.
Ferrari is looking into diesel and electric cars, Audi have a R8 electric and here we are still toying with the idea of a truck motor in a Landie.

**Dougal** · 23rd December 2009, 06:46 AM

Originally Posted by big guy

Ferrari is looking into diesel and electric cars, Audi have a R8 electric and here we are still toying with the idea of a truck motor in a Landie.

A truck motor that uses less fuel than a 300tdi which is being worked hard.

You are aware of the legendary fuel efficiency of VW's 1.9L tdi? Well this Isuzu 3.9 is more efficient at it's rated power than the 1.9tdi is.
That's the interesting part about truck motors, fuel economy is paramount.

**big guy** · 23rd December 2009, 07:26 AM

I am aware actually of the 1.9VW, which I may add is absolute rubbish.
Its now been stopped thank god.
we have a 07 Golf 2.0tdi and love it. Had the AVR chip and has roughly 390nm torque. Standard its 320nm.
So thank for reminding me how lucky I was not to go for the 1.9.
Its truly Wowful.
Try and drive one and you will know what I mean.

I do believe I will always stunble on the 3.9 Suzi debate.
Not sure exactly why I do not like it as much as it seems.
it does make sense, its just so antiquated.
Why is exactly what you want as a outback tourer, I know but the noise and the bearded stigma just sits at the back of my mind.

To be perfectly frank, My ultimate truck is actually a 130 with maxi's and a proper diesel which more likely than not be a Isuzu.

It must be a mental block I have sustained working to many nights or something.

I am contridicting myself, I am very aware of that. I still can't stand them but will quite likely end up with one.

thats life I guess.

**defend** · 23rd December 2009, 08:34 AM

Mercedes Diesels
A great diesel motor for a Defender conversion is the 5 cly Mercedes 3 liter turbo,non electrics,built from 1975 till 1986.These are one of the strongest most reliable Diesels ever built,parts are cheap.
After 1986 the Mercedes Diesels were not as good and the 3.5 liter diesels were rubbish.
The 3liter motors are a wet liner motor,easy to rebuild.
Fuel economy is as low as 7.5 liters per 100km when mated to a manual box.I have seen these fitted in Defenders,not hard to fit,have to alter the front of the sump to clear the dif.
I am waiting for the motor in my 300Tdi to die so i can drop in one of these Mercedes motors,Have one sitting on a engine stand,waiting.
Much better than Isuzu.

**Dougal** · 23rd December 2009, 10:21 AM

Originally Posted by defend

Mercedes Diesels
A great diesel motor for a Defender conversion is the 5 cly Mercedes 3 liter turbo,non electrics,built from 1975 till 1986.These are one of the strongest most reliable Diesels ever built,parts are cheap.
After 1986 the Mercedes Diesels were not as good and the 3.5 liter diesels were rubbish.
The 3liter motors are a wet liner motor,easy to rebuild.
Fuel economy is as low as 7.5 liters per 100km when mated to a manual box.I have seen these fitted in Defenders,not hard to fit,have to alter the front of the sump to clear the dif.
I am waiting for the motor in my 300Tdi to die so i can drop in one of these Mercedes motors,Have one sitting on a engine stand,waiting.
Much better than Isuzu.

How are these better than an Isuzu or even a rover diesel?
They're a car diesel with no real low end torque. With the fuel pump wound open they can deliver around 140hp at 4000rpm and not even 200ft-lb (270Nm).
The 300 TDi can deliver more.

What is your yardstick for strongest and most reliable diesel? It appears the "phenomenal" distances these engines cover in cars translate to expected time between rebuilds for a truck engine in a truck.
Regarding strength, what are you basing that on?

The Isuzu is a dry liner engine which can do more than 500,000km between rebuilds, the stock fuel pump can deliver enough for over 200hp below 3000rpm and the stock head-gasket seems to hold till around 60psi boost.
Yeah terrible engine.

*edit*
Can you back-up your fuel economy claims too? The merc which used these engines couldn't break 10km/l, wikipedia has a listing for 14l/100km (7km/l). It pushes a whole lot less air than a defender and has less drag in the transmission too.
My Isuzu returns 10km/l on a highway trip, towing another car on a trailer it is around 8 km/l.

**nzlandies** · 23rd December 2009, 10:50 AM

I'm not an Isuzu motor fanatic but I would have one in my Land Rover WAY before the Merc. At least its the right type of motor. It has what the Merc motor is short of...Torque! It would be an idea in an old pre-defender 4cyl 90 if you had one to go in.

**GyroLandy** · 18th June 2010, 10:54 PM

The upgrade to teh 2.8 looks interesting. Has anyone done this before? If I go for this option the kit will cost $2,5k in AU$ so what would the head and rebore cost? Would anything need to b done to the head to accommodate the bigger pistons?

Can the existing injectors and turbo be used?

Last question is who is going to rebuild? Is it an option to do it self?

**rick130** · 19th June 2010, 05:39 AM

Originally Posted by GyroLandy

The upgrade to teh 2.8 looks interesting. Has anyone done this before? If I go for this option the kit will cost $2,5k in AU$ so what would the head and rebore cost? Would anything need to b done to the head to accommodate the bigger pistons?

Can the existing injectors and turbo be used?

Last question is who is going to rebuild? Is it an option to do it self?

I've thought of doing this myself.

Head would be fine (new 300Tdi heads are supposedly MWM 2.8 heads anyway)

I'd be worried there is insufficient core thickness after boring for the new slugs. All you need is a little core shift in the block casting and you can say hello water jacket.

Just something to consider.

**uninformed** · 19th June 2010, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by rick130

I've thought of doing this myself.

Head would be fine (new 300Tdi heads are supposedly MWM 2.8 heads anyway)

I'd be worried there is insufficient core thickness after boring for the new slugs. All you need is a little core shift in the block casting and you can say hello water jacket.

Just something to consider.

theres alot more to worry about than just core thickness in rebuilding a 300tdi even in stock form

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