6BD1T in Land Rover?

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Originally Posted by Bush65

The short bell housing will not fit the flywheel housing. The flywheel housing was made for Jaguar Land Rover Australia, but JLA used different bell housings from other LT95's and LT85's.

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That's a shame, not that it is impossible with a standard length bell-housing, it just would have been neater/easier with a short one. On the other hand it would be one less hard to find part to hunt down.

Can anyone do pictures of the Isuzu and the V8 LT95 bell-housings to see just how different they are?

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Originally Posted by Dougal

A 6 cyl with it's extra smoothness would be much easier on gearboxes. If it didn't have ~50% more torque.;)

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That's why I'm thinking about a naturally aspirated six, similar performance numbers to a turbo four cylinder, but much smoother. People seem to be happy with such torque when they turbo the 4BT1.

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Originally Posted by flagg

Would you need to put a sals up front to handle the 555 odd kg of the big 6?

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Still thinking on the axle question. Some very mixed opinions on the Sals, the housings aren't much stronger it would seem and the hubs still limit half shafts diameter.

BTW figures I have found (dry weights) that I am using for estimation

6BG1 465kg
4BG1T 360kg
4BG1 350kg
4BD1 330kg
300tdi 205kg

thanks everyone, one day I will actually commit to a plan and start buying bits of metal...

Dan

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Originally Posted by zkdaz

That's why I'm thinking about a naturally aspirated six, similar performance numbers to a turbo four cylinder, but much smoother. People seem to be happy with such torque when they turbo the 4BT1.

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You'll take a fuel consumption hit from both the extra cylinders and the lack of turbocharging. With the extra weight as well I'm not seeing any advantage (and several disadvantages) over a 4BD1T.

IMO, fit a 4BD1T and make the flywheel heavier. Call it done. If you want to fit a 6BD1, do it properly, fit the turbo version and find an appropriate driveline.

Back in the 1980s I spent time in some of Bill Kings 4x4 buses in about 1984 we put the 6BD1s into Bedfords that we used.
The engines were reliable but to be honest they really didn't have much down low.
The 330 ci Bedfords would lug much better in sand, I also recall that Parks and Wildlife were using Isuzu trucks while building the road in the Finke River they too suffered from a lack of low down torque.
I always like the thought of a 6354 Perkins in a 109 inch Land Rover there was one in the UK that seemed to go quite well.
Major gearing changes needed though.

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Originally Posted by Dougal

I beleive the early ones (inline pump, not commonrail) are electronically managed. You'll likely get it to run, but at least timing advance is electronic.

Rearward facing starter is the real bugger on those.

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There are 2 units on the early 4he1t (non common rail) IP ! 1 is a rack position sensor
2 is a solanoid that advances timing for 18 secs after startup to control white smoke .The
rack position sensor all to do with EGR As far as I can determine the engine running wont be affected by not having them conected The starter is a non issue can post some pictures and measurements if anyone interested

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Originally Posted by zkdaz

That's a shame, not that it is impossible with a standard length bell-housing, it just would have been neater/easier with a short one. On the other hand it would be one less hard to find part to hunt down.

Can anyone do pictures of the Isuzu and the V8 LT95 bell-housings to see just how different they are?



That's why I'm thinking about a naturally aspirated six, similar performance numbers to a turbo four cylinder, but much smoother. People seem to be happy with such torque when they turbo the 4BT1.

Still thinking on the axle question. Some very mixed opinions on the Sals, the housings aren't much stronger it would seem and the hubs still limit half shafts diameter.

BTW figures I have found (dry weights) that I am using for estimation

6BG1 465kg
4BG1T 360kg
4BG1 350kg
4BD1 330kg
300tdi 205kg

thanks everyone, one day I will actually commit to a plan and start buying bits of metal...

Dan

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The Isuzu bell housing may even be shorter than your short LT95 bell housing. I just went and took a quick measurement of the length of my Isuzu bell housing and it is approximately 120-130 mm long.

Naturally aspirated doesn't make good sense.

Easier to strengthen the front rover axle housing to obtain a stronger housing than a sals.

If you can get a ?BG1 they are better than the BD1, however 4BG1's were never built for automotive use AFAIK, so require more $$$ and time to sort out related issues.

With all ancillaries fitted, to both engines, the 4BD1T is 80 to 90 kg heavier than a 300Tdi. The weight of a 4BD1T is just a few kg less than your stated weight, but a 300Tdi weighing 205 kg is un-dressed.

Edit: Found the weight from an accurate set of scales, for a 300Tdi with all ancillaries; 259kg

Thanks John, Dougal et al

These forums are a great sanity check. I guess I am coming to the same conclusion as all before me, while it may be possible to bolt a 6 cyl Isuzu in, it sounds like a lot of work and would probably ruin LR's off road abilities.

I guess this brings me full circle back to a choice between the Isuzu 4BD1T or the Toyota 12H-T or 15B-T for big, fully mechanical, pushrod, direct injection, turbo diesels that are available in Australia and could be certified in a coil sprung chassis. I see pros and cons each way but I am a bit hung up on the mechanical elegance of the 6 cylinder engine.

Cheers
Dan

Me and a mate are building a 12ht at the moment, nice motor however it frustrates me when i compare it to the Isuzu and notice the 12ht has no sleeves :( personally by simple comparisons the Isuzu is a much better motor,designed so that it is easy to replace/repair parts and the components are considerably larger compared to Toyota stuff...

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Originally Posted by c.h.i.e.f

Me and a mate are building a 12ht at the moment, nice motor however it frustrates me when i compare it to the Isuzu and notice the 12ht has no sleeves :( personally by simple comparisons the Isuzu is a much better motor,designed so that it is easy to replace/repair parts and the components are considerably larger compared to Toyota stuff...

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Larger and therefore heavier I guess.

I would be interested in your comparison of these two engines, I am torn between them. The isuzu is definitely an industrial engine and the toyota automotive with torque/power higher up the revs lowering stress on gearboxes by higher diff ratios. I would expect to have to completely rebuild either one.

Since someone has bored out the 12ht to 95mm, I would expect you could sleeve it quite easily. What are you putting the 12ht in? 60 series axles have almost identical track to a 90/110 and the h55 gearbox has a very useful low first. LR agility, Toyota strength...

Dan

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Originally Posted by zkdaz

Larger and therefore heavier I guess.

I would be interested in your comparison of these two engines, I am torn between them. The isuzu is definitely an industrial engine and the toyota automotive with torque/power higher up the revs lowering stress on gearboxes by higher diff ratios. I would expect to have to completely rebuild either one.

Since someone has bored out the 12ht to 95mm, I would expect you could sleeve it quite easily. What are you putting the 12ht in? 60 series axles have almost identical track to a 90/110 and the h55 gearbox has a very useful low first. LR agility, Toyota strength...

Dan

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I prefer Isuzu strength.:angel:

The toyota 15B series should be excellent engines, I've driven the non turbo versions in Dyna's and they were very smooth/quiet if a little gutless. But the intake/exhaust swap sides compared to an Isuzu. So keep that in mind.

I was more meaning the gearbox and axles than the engine when I mentioned toyota strength;)

I am looking for about a 4 litre turbo or a 6 litre NA. Played with the idea of a 15B in a 40 series cruiser (thanks Dougal for your input on ih8mud way back) but really would prefer a coil sprung vehicle.

Needs to be road legal in NSW and maybe NZ in the future, so it's easier if the engine is newer than the chassis. I have a pathalogical hatred of timing belts, engine management, precom chambers and rotary IP after bad experiences with each of them.

Turboing an Isuzu is certainly the easiest way to get the sort of vehicle I want, I am just a little worried about it's reputation for eating gearboxes, it's not exactly the sort of thing you can carry a spare. I need to spend the night reading through the MSA+LT230 gearbox thread and get my head around how it compares to the LT95 which I have some experience with.

What different weight flywheels fit the 4BD1? Logically the 4BD1T should have the highest inertial mass.

Is a truck flywheel compatible with the JLA housing and high starter motor mount? If so, can a whole truck turbo engine with all the compression ratio, boost compensating IP, oiling, flywheel, etc bolt up to the JLA flywheel housing and starter? Presumably they have the same block casting and bolt pattern.

If I can work out gearboxes and axles handle the 4BD1T's massive torque reliably then I will let go the 'complete HJ61 cruiser mechanicals under a LR 110' idea.

Cheers
Dan