Thread: Adaptor shaft

Originally Posted by workingonit

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This Oz site has a nice line up of information regarding heat treatments etc. Just going through it myself.

Heat Treatment Australia - offers a variety of treatments including, hardening & tempering, carbo nitriding, cryotemp, aluminium treatments, annealing, carburising. Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne, Australia

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On a related topic, I note in a couple of posts you have mentioned cryo treatment [a current fad with little scientific study] - and outcast use it on their shaft.

Materials Science and Technology Conference and Exhibition 2012, MS and T 2012
Volume 2, 2012, Pages 1102-1113
Materials Science and Technology Conference and Exhibition 2012, MS and T 2012; Pittsburgh, PA; United States; 7 October 2012 through 11 October 2012; Code 96346
The effect of cryogenic treatment on 4X40 steels (Conference Paper)

Hespos, M.R.a, Mulligan, C.P.b

a U.S. Army - ARDEC, Advanced Materials Technology Branch, Picatinny Arsenal, NJ, United States
b U.S. Army - ARDEC, Benet Laboratories, Watervliet Arsenal, NY, United States
View references (9)
Abstract

The effect of cryogenic treatment on 4X40 series steel was studied. The study included chemistry, microstructure, microhardness, tensile, fracture toughness, fatigue crack propagation, x-ray diffraction for retained austenite and tribological testing. Credible, independent test data about the effects of cryogenic treatment on 4X40 series steels is lacking. The test results show that cryogenic treatment offers no significant benefit on the properties of 4X40 steels. A smaller test regimen, focused on tribological testing of carbo-nitrided 1018 steel, found a reduction in coefficient of friction from 0.54 to 0.45 and a reduction in wear rate by 30% were recorded.
Author keywords

4140 steel; 4340 steel; Case hardened steel; Cryogenic treatment; Mechanical properties; Wear properties

The studies I can find which have found benefits from cryo treatment are all on tool steels and/or cutting equipment for machining. I can't find a study that suggests cryo treatment offers any benefits for axles or similar components.

Isuzurover, your comments take me back to what I said somewhere (can't find it) that Ancients design is good, but not perfect if the shafts are made in dribbs and drabs by different manufacturers with their own views on what metal treatments should apply. Even Ancient had different view to his German friend. Those that won't buy until our very bespoke/uncommon designs are proved will miss the boat on a bulk buy, then wait years for us to field test to satisfaction, then find they can't afford a one off of a proved design, or cut corners to get one with varying results.

It does seem cryogenic treatment is valid for increased wear resistance and it is good for tool steel and maybe axles, stub shafts and drive flange splines in that respect - the process does affect the full thickness of the material in question - but whether it should be considered as a process that strengthens the internal material as well seems to be the argument. Outcast say theirs is cryotreated. My assumption is for strength - but it may well be for improving spline wear. I am hoping Outcast will give me the name of their axle manufacturer so I can get closer to the source. But if the axle manufacturer relies on outside expertise then I will have to follow that line up. Just hope Ancient comes back with something and I'll drop my research like a hot stone as it is very very time consuming.

To me the steps/issues are:
- finding a design that won't break; that is field serviceable; that fits current casings
- determining the the alloy, treatment processes etc
- finding a cost effective manufacturer
- getting the interested parties to commit

We should have a staged process of debate. Design first. That's why I have asked questions about end float, input bearing loading etc and produced some sketches, having doubts about whether Ancients design would fit mine or Sheldon style casings etc, and started talking to people in those fields. My mistake for talking early on treatments here and there in simply describing what treatments manufacturers are claiming to have done - not a debate I can argue on at the moment.

My link to heat treatment australia was there so that we can get a better understanding in the mean time - but maybe I should store these away until we get to the 'treament stage' of this thread

Maybe we could get something made out of balsa wood...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/models-dio...el-makers.html

Originally Posted by workingonit

Maybe we could get something made out of balsa wood...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/models-dio...el-makers.html

It seems mine already is😆😆😆😆.

As for cryo, Keith cryo'd my cv's, standard gkn aeu2522's, said he was getting good results from them.

You were always a trend setter

Good. But as Isuzurover asks - cryo to what effect - surface hardening or through hardening and possible extra strength?

Are you back under the doona texting...night life in Tassie too boring...shouldn't you be eating cray fish bysubdued light on some seaside wharf?

Originally Posted by Vern

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As for cryo, Keith cryo'd my cv's, standard gkn aeu2522's, said he was getting good results from them.

Yes, however I doubt he did any rigorous scientific testing on them...

Originally Posted by isuzurover

Yes, however I doubt he did any rigorous scientific testing on them...

Agree, was it you who had similar dealings as i did with him?

Originally Posted by workingonit

You were always a trend setter

Good. But as Isuzurover asks - cryo to what effect - surface hardening or through hardening and possible extra strength?

Are you back under the doona texting...night life in Tassie too boring...shouldn't you be eating cray fish bysubdued light on some seaside wharf?

Somewhere like this? No crayfish, but prawns, scallops, and calamari