K-O-H 2013 With LR content

**uninformed** · 3rd February 2013, 02:34 PM

I just hope they finish both events....may have bitten off more than they can chew.

**Psimpson7** · 3rd February 2013, 02:49 PM

As far as I can see they are in the EMC (every man challenge) and the main event. (They aren't in the EMC list on the below link but as you say it has been mentioned elsewhere)

2013 Griffin King of the Hammers Event Entry List - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

Qualifying times (24th on tuesday for KOH):

Ultra4 4 Wheel Parts Qualifying Starting Order By Day | Ultra4Racing.com

I think the stock, and stock mod class event is actually run on a different course.... the website is terrible!

**uninformed** · 3rd February 2013, 04:07 PM

the way I am reading it is, the EMC is the stock and stock-mod class race. Not the full KOH but all parts of it.

Even though Gigglepin are in the EMC, it seems they are also already in the KOH, which means they do not have to win the EMC to get into the KOH.

on top of that, they have pushed the limits very fine as what you quoted from last year there was 5 days between EMC and KOH....this year EMC is on the thursday, KOH the Friday...in fact KOH tech inspection is on while they are racing EMC.... its going to be one hell of a week for them if they have any problems.

**ashtrans** · 3rd February 2013, 08:15 PM

Originally Posted by Slunnie

That's going to be a serious test of the force9s

Not really, Jim has the prototypes that had the 'true hi 9' ring and pinions, these use the ford 9" tooth angles but being high pinion the rear is driving on the coast side of the tooth, this generates huge side forces resulting in the needle roller bearing wearing on the end of the pinion, on the production ones we designed, we adjusted these tooth angles to reduce these side forces,

If a diff fails I think this will be why,

Dave

**uninformed** · 3rd February 2013, 09:27 PM

Tru hi 9 make the mega9 which has some improvements over the hi9 for which some are installing in the rear.....

Dave, do you know if their housings are strengthened in any way? Does your force9 ring and pinion retain the same hypoid/pinion offset as a ford 9 and do you retain the 3rd bearing/pinion support?

**Grimace** · 4th February 2013, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by uninformed

Tru hi 9 make the mega9 which has some improvements over the hi9 for which some are installing in the rear.....

Dave, do you know if their housings are strengthened in any way? Does your force9 ring and pinion retain the same hypoid/pinion offset as a ford 9 and do you retain the 3rd bearing/pinion support?

Don't quote me on this but I believe the housings are sleeved internally.

**Psimpson7** · 4th February 2013, 11:39 AM

latest update.. now running a spool in the rear....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/95h92spsbe9316d/Blank%203.pdf

**uninformed** · 4th February 2013, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Psimpson7

latest update.. now running a spool in the rear....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/95h92spsbe9316d/Blank%203.pdf

Hmmm I wonder if oiling issues where the cause???

**ashtrans** · 5th February 2013, 07:26 AM

I don't think it was oil as this is a failed journal bearing which is on the centreline of the diff, if oil was a problem I would of expected the much higher pinion bearing to fail, this locker was a modified ARB RD99 as opposed to the production ones which have our locker, we pulled this bearing in 20mm and I think this bearing has failed due to 3 things,

1) by pulling the bearing in we have increased the load on them,

2) soft cast ARB material

3) huge side forces due to tooth pressure angles as mentioned above (on the morning it failed!)

I think the mega high 9 just has a larger diameter pinion shaft but there may be other changes

Dave

**uninformed** · 5th February 2013, 04:40 PM

Originally Posted by ashtrans

I don't think it was oil as this is a failed journal bearing which is on the centreline of the diff, if oil was a problem I would of expected the much higher pinion bearing to fail, this locker was a modified ARB RD99 as opposed to the production ones which have our locker, we pulled this bearing in 20mm and I think this bearing has failed due to 3 things,

1) by pulling the bearing in we have increased the load on them,

2) soft cast ARB material

3) huge side forces due to tooth pressure angles as mentioned above (on the morning it failed!)

I think the mega high 9 just has a larger diameter pinion shaft but there may be other changes

Dave

just read your web page, ill post some basics and correct me if any are wrong:

Force9 (proto and production) diff journal bearings 20mm closer together than a ford 9 due to smaller rover axle/diff housing.

Side thrust due to tooth angle of ford9 which is little when on the drive side but much greater when on the coast side....rear high pinion will be running on the coast side (True hi9 is coast side) can not get gears cut opposite. Ashcroft and there ring and pinion manufacture have come up with their own design which changes tooth profile and reduces side thrus when on coast side.

Ashcroft force9 has the same pinion offset from ring gear center line as Ford9. Ashcroft force9 has the extra pinion support on the end like Ford9

Ashcroft force9 locker is an improvement on the troublesome ARB Ford9 locker.

It seems odd to me that Gigglepin have gone to KOH with your prototype, especially after your findings during R&D that led to the final product. Im sure there are reasons, I just hope they can sort it and finish their events.

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