The Whyalla steel works must be saved, at any cost

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Lots of talk about Arium here, what should be done, what people need to do, progressive action, what Aussies should do, "move on, move forward" (Jeez, how many times do I need to hear "move forward").
BUT, there has beeen NO talk of how Arium can "Move Forward", NO CONCRETE PROGRAM FROM ANYONE, as to how Arium can survive.
Nothing concrete from Arium, its management, Administrators, The Banks, in fact NO-ONE has come up with anything, any solution, as to how Arium can return to efficient, profitable, production.
And I'm not surprised, and as I've said before, Arium is simply the latest of a long line, which will get longer.
Are We in BIG TROUBLE?..Absolutely. We ain't got no spare ammo, & we are borrowing more "ammo" every day.
Will the Govt, ANY Govt, fix the problem? Well, I say neither is capable of that at the moment, for very different reasons,..quite happy to enlarge on that if anyone's interested, but ya're probably not!
So, IMHO, don't just confine your thoughts to Arium, the problem is MUCH bigger than that, I wish it wasn't, but IMHO, it is.
"Voice of Doom"?..Probably, Pickles.

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You will only hear the odd snippet, the board & management of Arium don't have any answers that's why the called in the receivers , the only side of government that has a lot to say in this sort of situation is whomever is in opposition as they can woffle on as much as they like with uncosted dribble because they will never be held accountable they try and win votes , and the receivers well they will take age's and trawl thru every bit of the company they can, leaving no stone unturned as they get paid regardless, even before any creditor get 1c.


I think you are most likely correct, we as a country spend more than we make, its the reason Arium is in this situation and why as a country we will go the same way, unless some political party finds the balls to make the tough calls , put up with the bad publicity , and hope that people wake up and realise its something as a whole we need to do. None of the current crop of pollies will do it as they are to worried about keeping the golden egg job they have.


The last politician that had the balls to do it when Howard stood up to the gun lobby and common sense prevailed, but that's for a different thread.


Cheers Ean

There are sunset industries and sunrise industries for Australia, need to pick the winners. Anyone got a lazy 14 B for a silicon chip foundry

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Originally Posted by AndyG

There are sunset industries and sunrise industries for Australia, need to pick the winners. Anyone got a lazy 14 B for a silicon chip foundry

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Silicon, old tech.
What about organics?

Agree,
Nano, bionics, quantum computing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Eevo

i think here is the key point were we differ.
you think its ok for a business to run at a loss as long as it employees people regardless of how bad the business is performing.
i dont.

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that's not what i said at all..

lots of business are run at a loss.... especially when you have some other overly profitable ones

this myopic view that each should be viewed in isolation is half the issue...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pickles2

Lots of talk about Arium here, what should be done, what people need to do, progressive action, what Aussies should do, "move on, move forward" (Jeez, how many times do I need to hear "move forward").
BUT, there has beeen NO talk of how Arium can "Move Forward", NO CONCRETE PROGRAM FROM ANYONE, as to how Arium can survive.
Nothing concrete from Arium, its management, Administrators, The Banks, in fact NO-ONE has come up with anything, any solution, as to how Arium can return to efficient, profitable, production.
And I'm not surprised, and as I've said before, Arium is simply the latest of a long line, which will get longer.
Are We in BIG TROUBLE?..Absolutely. We ain't got no spare ammo, & we are borrowing more "ammo" every day.
Will the Govt, ANY Govt, fix the problem? Well, I say neither is capable of that at the moment, for very different reasons,..quite happy to enlarge on that if anyone's interested, but ya're probably not!
So, IMHO, don't just confine your thoughts to Arium, the problem is MUCH bigger than that, I wish it wasn't, but IMHO, it is.
"Voice of Doom"?..Probably, Pickles.

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It is preferable to think through a problem, and find a way to move forward, then sit on ones thumb, and rotate. The answer is simple. Tariffs. Exactly what the USA is doing. They have the courage, we have the ditherers. Remind me , what fine body of men sold us out with the free trade deal. Free for some, devastating for us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mick_Marsh

Silicon, old tech.
What about organics?

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The World needs to be fed. Food & water, with Earths population growing fast,
investment in food growth seems a lay down misere. We should spend the money needed to ensure an adequate supply of water, to our best producing areas. Before foreign companies own it all. About those foreign companies;


The following is an extract from an article by Frank Walker which appeared in the Sun Herald, 17 September 2000.
"The level of foreign ownership of Australian companies has doubled in the past decade to 21% of gross domestic product (GDP) and foreign debt hovers at 40% of GDP. The money leaving Australia to foreign owners doubled in the decade to $12 billion last year."
"Tax expert and Electronic International Trade Service director Martin Feil said multinationals use a tax trick called transfer pricing to escape paying tax in Australia. An Australian Taxation Office review of 207 companies, which generated $30 billion in annual revenue, showed they paid less than $40 million in company tax."
"'Despite having operated in Australia for decades, over half of the foreign companies paid no tax at all,' Mr. Feil said

Who is getting the kickback?

I seem to be on a slightly different page here.
While I believe governments should purchase local product. I believe supports should be in place but not to protect big business like GM or those who pack up to operate elsewhere.
These manufacturers are not leaving Australia because the business model is unsustainable.
They are leaving/ have left, to ensure the new Merc, biz jet, holiday home is not compromised.
Business never operates with an ideology, that is just spin to make consumers and employees feel good.
Business operates to make the owners/ investors money.
Employees are nothing in the scheme other than what can be had at the lowest price.
There isn't a business ormanufacturer in the world that would not take advantage of free labour.
Ideological business models where others matter do not exist.
Ideology is up to the consumer.
No such thing as a billionaire aged care giver.
The wealthy will step on, bury whatever gets in their way to ensure their own wellbeing, whether people, environment even governments, crying poor all the way.
Big business won't change because we get concerned about social effects.
But the government could impose tarifs to help protect the countries viable industries.

As mentioned before, steel landing here cheaper than the the ore was sold to the manufacturer isn't a sustainable business model- it is a hostile business move to remove all competitors.
GM and others left for more cash and expected the Australian taxpayer to provide cheap/ free labour and sustain the executives excessive lifestyle.

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Originally Posted by Ean Austral

I wonder how many people questioned what was going to happen when china was buying our resources by the ship load. A as country we were welcoming it with open arms , well looks like it wasn't so smart after all.


I wonder if the mining companies that helped supply china with the resources to be able to make that much steel would line up to buy those Arrium bonds.


Just a question , I am sure frantic will know the answer - How long has the Whyalla plant been in operation ?


Cheers Ean

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Whyalla steel mill was born out of necessity during WW2, to help the Commonwealth War effort. However iron ore had been mined from the Middleback range since 1900. [ the mines were called Iron Duke, Iron Knob, Iron Monarch, Iron Baron, Iron Princess, & Iron Chiefton] Ore was shipped to Port Pirie to be used as flux in smelters. Later ore was sent to Port Kembla. I believe the mill was started in May 1941, and first used to send pig iron at BHP plants. The names of the mines may sound familiar, because they are , in the main, the names of ships built by the Whyalla shipyard.

It wasn't until the 1960's that rolling mills & coke ovens were constructed, enabling the Whyalla plant to become a fully integrated steelworks. The shipyard built the largest ship in Australia, Darling River, and the first gas turbine-electric powered ship, the Seaway Prince.

Back then, the Government of the day decided Australia did not need a shipbuilding industry. The shipyard closed, Whyalla went into a major re cession. The workforce at the steelworks went from 6,000, to 1500. Ever since then, the steel works has been behind the 8 ball, just surviving. The Chinese problem was the straw , the lack of interest from various federal governments , the back breaker. Don't blame the present board, it goes way back. One has to think, if governments had not been donated massive amounts of money from mining interests, whether they would have fallen asleep at the desk. A list of ships built. None have been built since.

Vessels built at Whyalla shipyards[edit]

MV Lake Illawarra was sunk after colliding with the Tasman Bridge in 1975. 5 motorists' lives were lost.

HMAS Pirie was launched in Whyalla in 1941

HMAS Kalgoorlie was launched in Whyalla in 1941

Plate from the vessel P.J.Adams on display at the SA Maritime Museum.
Name Type Owner DWT Launched
HMAS Gawler Corvette Royal Australian Navy 690 1941
HMAS Kalgoorlie Corvette Royal Australian Navy 690 1941
HMAS Pirie Corvette Royal Australian Navy 690 1941
HMAS Whyalla Corvette Royal Australian Navy 690 1941
Iron Monarch Ore Carrier BHP 8160 1942
Iron Duke II Ore Carrier BHP 7740 1943
River Glenelg Freighter Australian National Line 9260 1943
River Derwent Freighter Australian National Line 9320 1944
River Murchison Freighter Australian National Line 9250 1944
River Murray Freighter Australian National Line 9380 1945
River Murrumbidgee Freighter Australian National Line 9290 1945
Dandenong Freighter Australian National Line 3040 1946
Daylesford Freighter Australian National Line 3030 1946
Delamere Freighter State Shipping Service of Western Australia 3010 1946
Barrigun Freighter Australian National Line 6350 1947
Iron Yampi Bulk Carrier BHP 13100 1947
Balarr Freighter Howard Smith Industries 6350 1948
Balook Freighter Australian National Line 6350 1949
Iron Kimberley Bulk Carrier BHP 12760 1949
Iron Derby Bulk Carrier BHP 11790 1950
Baroota Freighter Adelaide Steamship Co. Ltd. 6350 1951
Iron Wyndham Bulk Carrier BHP 13070 1952
Iron Whyalla Bulk Carrier BHP 10800 1953
Yanderra Collier Australian National Line 4830 1954
Yarrunga Collier Australian National Line 4830 1954
Lake Eyre Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 10160 1955
Iron Spencer Bulk Carrier BHP 12800 1956
Lake Illawarra Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 10160 1957
Lake Torrens Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 10160 1957
Lake Macquarie Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 10160 1958
Iron Flinders Ore Carrier BHP 19400 1959
Mount Keira Ore Carrier Australian National Line 14220 1959
Iron Dampier Ore Carrier BHP 19320 1960
Mount Kembla Ore Carrier Australian National Line 15240 1960
Mittagong Bulk Carrier Bulkships Ltd. 16660 1962
P.J. Adams Tanker Ampol Petroleum Ltd. 32770 1962
Wollongong Bulk Carrier Bulkships Ltd. 16660 1962
Seaway Queen Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 3250 1963
Musgrave Range Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 21740 1964
Seaway King Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 3250 1964
Darling River Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 49780 1965
Gerrigong Bulk Carrier Bulkships Ltd. 21740 1965[7]
Bogong Bulk Carrier Bulkships Ltd. 55880 1966
Ocean Digger Oil Drilling Barge ODECO (Aust) Ltd. 1967
Cellana Tanker Shell Co. of Australia Ltd. 22350 1968
Iron Hunter Bulk Carrier BHP 55460 1968
Kanimbla Container ship Bulkships Ltd. 10670 1968
Clutha Oceanic Bulk Carrier Hastings Shipping Co. Pty. Ltd. 55630 1969
Manoora Container ship Bulkships Ltd. 15140 1969
Yarra River Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 55680 1970
Amanda Miller Tanker R. W. Miller & Co. Pty. Ltd. 67060 1971
Mobil Australis Tanker Mobil Oil Australia Ltd. 24380 1971[8]
Clutha Capricorn Bulk Carrier Clutha Development Co. Pty. Ltd. 84330 1972
W.M. Leonard Tanker Ampol Petroleum Ltd. 25910 1972
Iron Duke Roll-on/Roll-off BHP 14630 1973
Iron Monarch Roll-on/Roll-off BHP 14630 1973
Arthur Phillip Tanker Botany Bay Tanker Co.(Aust) Pty. Ltd. 67820 1974
Zincmaster Bulk Carrier & Roll-on/Roll-off Holyman Operations Pty Ltd., Hobart 12696 1975[9]
Seaway Prince Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 1975[10]
Seaway Princess Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 5550 1975[9]
Union Rotorua Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 14550 1976[9]
Union Rotoiti Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 14550 1976[9]
Iron Carpentaria Bulk Ore Carrier BHP 45430 1977[9]
Iron Curtis Bulk Carrier BHP 45430 1978[9][11]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bob10

Whyalla steel mill was born out of necessity during WW2, to help the Commonwealth War effort. However iron ore had been mined from the Middleback range since 1900. [ the mines were called Iron Duke, Iron Knob, Iron Monarch, Iron Baron, Iron Princess, & Iron Chiefton] Ore was shipped to Port Pirie to be used as flux in smelters. Later ore was sent to Port Kembla. I believe the mill was started in May 1941, and first used to send pig iron at BHP plants. The names of the mines may sound familiar, because they are , in the main, the names of ships built by the Whyalla shipyard.

It wasn't until the 1960's that rolling mills & coke ovens were constructed, enabling the Whyalla plant to become a fully integrated steelworks. The shipyard built the largest ship in Australia, Darling River, and the first gas turbine-electric powered ship, the Seaway Prince.

Back then, the Government of the day decided Australia did not need a shipbuilding industry. The shipyard closed, Whyalla went into a major re cession. The workforce at the steelworks went from 6,000, to 1500. Ever since then, the steel works has been behind the 8 ball, just surviving. The Chinese problem was the straw , the lack of interest from various federal governments , the back breaker. Don't blame the present board, it goes way back. One has to think, if governments had not been donated massive amounts of money from mining interests, whether they would have fallen asleep at the desk. A list of ships built. None have been built since.

Vessels built at Whyalla shipyards[edit]

MV Lake Illawarra was sunk after colliding with the Tasman Bridge in 1975. 5 motorists' lives were lost.

HMAS Pirie was launched in Whyalla in 1941

HMAS Kalgoorlie was launched in Whyalla in 1941

Plate from the vessel P.J.Adams on display at the SA Maritime Museum.
Name Type Owner DWT Launched
HMAS Gawler Corvette Royal Australian Navy 690 1941
HMAS Kalgoorlie Corvette Royal Australian Navy 690 1941
HMAS Pirie Corvette Royal Australian Navy 690 1941
HMAS Whyalla Corvette Royal Australian Navy 690 1941
Iron Monarch Ore Carrier BHP 8160 1942
Iron Duke II Ore Carrier BHP 7740 1943
River Glenelg Freighter Australian National Line 9260 1943
River Derwent Freighter Australian National Line 9320 1944
River Murchison Freighter Australian National Line 9250 1944
River Murray Freighter Australian National Line 9380 1945
River Murrumbidgee Freighter Australian National Line 9290 1945
Dandenong Freighter Australian National Line 3040 1946
Daylesford Freighter Australian National Line 3030 1946
Delamere Freighter State Shipping Service of Western Australia 3010 1946
Barrigun Freighter Australian National Line 6350 1947
Iron Yampi Bulk Carrier BHP 13100 1947
Balarr Freighter Howard Smith Industries 6350 1948
Balook Freighter Australian National Line 6350 1949
Iron Kimberley Bulk Carrier BHP 12760 1949
Iron Derby Bulk Carrier BHP 11790 1950
Baroota Freighter Adelaide Steamship Co. Ltd. 6350 1951
Iron Wyndham Bulk Carrier BHP 13070 1952
Iron Whyalla Bulk Carrier BHP 10800 1953
Yanderra Collier Australian National Line 4830 1954
Yarrunga Collier Australian National Line 4830 1954
Lake Eyre Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 10160 1955
Iron Spencer Bulk Carrier BHP 12800 1956
Lake Illawarra Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 10160 1957
Lake Torrens Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 10160 1957
Lake Macquarie Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 10160 1958
Iron Flinders Ore Carrier BHP 19400 1959
Mount Keira Ore Carrier Australian National Line 14220 1959
Iron Dampier Ore Carrier BHP 19320 1960
Mount Kembla Ore Carrier Australian National Line 15240 1960
Mittagong Bulk Carrier Bulkships Ltd. 16660 1962
P.J. Adams Tanker Ampol Petroleum Ltd. 32770 1962
Wollongong Bulk Carrier Bulkships Ltd. 16660 1962
Seaway Queen Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 3250 1963
Musgrave Range Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 21740 1964
Seaway King Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 3250 1964
Darling River Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 49780 1965
Gerrigong Bulk Carrier Bulkships Ltd. 21740 1965[7]
Bogong Bulk Carrier Bulkships Ltd. 55880 1966
Ocean Digger Oil Drilling Barge ODECO (Aust) Ltd. 1967
Cellana Tanker Shell Co. of Australia Ltd. 22350 1968
Iron Hunter Bulk Carrier BHP 55460 1968
Kanimbla Container ship Bulkships Ltd. 10670 1968
Clutha Oceanic Bulk Carrier Hastings Shipping Co. Pty. Ltd. 55630 1969
Manoora Container ship Bulkships Ltd. 15140 1969
Yarra River Bulk Carrier Australian National Line 55680 1970
Amanda Miller Tanker R. W. Miller & Co. Pty. Ltd. 67060 1971
Mobil Australis Tanker Mobil Oil Australia Ltd. 24380 1971[8]
Clutha Capricorn Bulk Carrier Clutha Development Co. Pty. Ltd. 84330 1972
W.M. Leonard Tanker Ampol Petroleum Ltd. 25910 1972
Iron Duke Roll-on/Roll-off BHP 14630 1973
Iron Monarch Roll-on/Roll-off BHP 14630 1973
Arthur Phillip Tanker Botany Bay Tanker Co.(Aust) Pty. Ltd. 67820 1974
Zincmaster Bulk Carrier & Roll-on/Roll-off Holyman Operations Pty Ltd., Hobart 12696 1975[9]
Seaway Prince Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 1975[10]
Seaway Princess Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 5550 1975[9]
Union Rotorua Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 14550 1976[9]
Union Rotoiti Roll-on/Roll-off Union Steamship Company of New Zealand 14550 1976[9]
Iron Carpentaria Bulk Ore Carrier BHP 45430 1977[9]
Iron Curtis Bulk Carrier BHP 45430 1978[9][11]

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Thanks Bob,


But all that post does is tell a simple minded dumb person like me the place has been doomed for a long time , its been death by 1000 cuts instead of a major heart attack.


I would quite happily tell the tax man to divert all my tax to save the place, but sadly I cant do that and those on welfare and all the other places where my tax $$ go wouldn't be happy.


Its a double edge sword, look at the employment that mining create during the GFC , if we didn't have that then where about s would we be ? I don't know as that's not my field, but I can guess. I wonder if the government during the resources boom had the foresight to realise that we were feeding the animal that was going to try and eat us to keep itself alive, I doubt it. keep digging holes and ship it out , keep the $$$ rolling into the coffers so we can waste it elsewhere.


The current management / board has to be held to account , they would have known they were in a troubled market , your post says so. Take the money , do the job , accept the consequences.


Don't get me wrong, the last thing I want to see is us ( Australia ) loose more key industries , but lets sort out the core problem first , before we just throw money at it to band aid the issue.


Cheers Ean