The Whyalla steel works must be saved, at any cost

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Originally Posted by Ean Austral

Thanks Bob,


But all that post does is tell a simple minded dumb person like me the place has been doomed for a long time , its been death by 1000 cuts instead of a major heart attack.


I would quite happily tell the tax man to divert all my tax to save the place, but sadly I cant do that and those on welfare and all the other places where my tax $$ go wouldn't be happy.


Its a double edge sword, look at the employment that mining create during the GFC , if we didn't have that then where about s would we be ? I don't know as that's not my field, but I can guess. I wonder if the government during the resources boom had the foresight to realise that we were feeding the animal that was going to try and eat us to keep itself alive, I doubt it. keep digging holes and ship it out , keep the $$$ rolling into the coffers so we can waste it elsewhere.


The current management / board has to be held to account , they would have known they were in a troubled market , your post says so. Take the money , do the job , accept the consequences.


Don't get me wrong, the last thing I want to see is us ( Australia ) loose more key industries , but lets sort out the core problem first , before we just throw money at it to band aid the issue.


Cheers Ean

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And the core problem is?

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Originally Posted by bob10

And the core problem is?

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Its not something I know much of , but there seems to have been plenty of suggestions so far.


What really caused Arium to be where it is would be a good start.


Cheers Ean

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Originally Posted by Ean Austral

Its not something I know much of , but there seems to have been plenty of suggestions so far.


What really caused Arium to be where it is would be a good start.


Cheers Ean

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I think it is safe to say, not one person here knows . It would be brilliant for Australian mainstream media to cut to the chase, and dig deep , in some real investigative journalism, but we know that is never going to happen. How long before your industry is ripped apart by super trawlers?

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Originally Posted by bob10

I think it is safe to say, not one person here knows . It would be brilliant for Australian mainstream media to cut to the chase, and dig deep , in some real investigative journalism, but we know that is never going to happen. How long before your industry is ripped apart by super trawlers?

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With all the pain we went thru to restructure the industry, we put in rules that capped the license's so I wont say in couldn't happen, but they would need to take out existing operators to get them in and the type of trawl we use you become in-efficient once your nets get to a certain size, add that to the time restrictions we have its a very slim possibility, but not impossible..
We have 2 types of license - B is the boat - there are only 51 of these - A- is the gear able to be used in net size , 1 A = 8cm of net , this number is also capped , so a super trawler would only need 1 B license but heaps of A units to go with it , so to stop it from happening we also imposed that every B license needs a minimum of 100 A units at all times or it gets surrendered , so you would need to take out several operators to put in a super trawler.


Funnily there was a Russian factory ship that tried to do it in the late 70"s but its costs outweighed its returns.

We are looking at the option of building new vessels but the returns are not there, so we keep upgrading the one's we have . Might have to go visit the ex shipyard in Whyalla , sounds like they will have plenty of steel available. :p:p


Cheers Ean

Thanks for that bob:D
I've worked and unloaded the iron carpentairia and the iron chieftain still comes here. We also used to watch the roro iron monarch go past but Bsl cut that.
The iron chieftain was a perfect example of quality defeated by cheap quantity, after 30 years the floors where still pretty good, access was very good except for hatch 1 and it was the best handy size to unload. We could on a 45,000 ton load grab out all except about 500 tons for a quick same cargo turnaround voyage, this was over 7 hatches. Most of the new handies have more than that left as a minimum in each hatch by their poorer design.
But back on topic, why has BSL bought their partner out in their USA steel business? Would it be no imports to swamp the market?
Unfortunately Arrium spent at the top of the cycle and are now laden with debt which their mining division cannot cover and their steel making is only break even at best.
Now if we followed the USA or Brazil and put hefty tarrifs on dumped steel Arrium may have reported a paper loss but would be covered by local demand.
One thing though is at least our pm has visited Whyalla. I won't comment on the number of times he's driven past the Illawarra to Canberra with not even a wave.:censored: because that's political.

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Originally Posted by frantic

Thanks for that bob:D
I've worked and unloaded the iron carpentairia and the iron chieftain still comes here. We also used to watch the roro iron monarch go past but Bsl cut that.
The iron chieftain was a perfect example of quality defeated by cheap quantity, after 30 years the floors where still pretty good, access was very good except for hatch 1 and it was the best handy size to unload. We could on a 45,000 ton load grab out all except about 500 tons for a quick same cargo turnaround voyage, this was over 7 hatches. Most of the new handies have more than that left as a minimum in each hatch by their poorer design.
But back on topic, why has BSL bought their partner out in their USA steel business? Would it be no imports to swamp the market?
Unfortunately Arrium spent at the top of the cycle and are now laden with debt which their mining division cannot cover and their steel making is only break even at best.
Now if we followed the USA or Brazil and put hefty tarrifs on dumped steel Arrium may have reported a paper loss but would be covered by local demand.
One thing though is at least our pm has visited Whyalla. I won't comment on the number of times he's driven past the Illawarra to Canberra with not even a wave.:censored: because that's political.

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Thanks mate. It's amazing what an election does, hey. I guess a lot depends on whether it is a core value promise, or non core value promise. Either way this country is going down the gurgler.

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Originally Posted by Ean Austral

With all the pain we went thru to restructure the industry, we put in rules that capped the license's so I wont say in couldn't happen, but they would need to take out existing operators to get them in and the type of trawl we use you become in-efficient once your nets get to a certain size, add that to the time restrictions we have its a very slim possibility, but not impossible..
We have 2 types of license - B is the boat - there are only 51 of these - A- is the gear able to be used in net size , 1 A = 8cm of net , this number is also capped , so a super trawler would only need 1 B license but heaps of A units to go with it , so to stop it from happening we also imposed that every B license needs a minimum of 100 A units at all times or it gets surrendered , so you would need to take out several operators to put in a super trawler.


Funnily there was a Russian factory ship that tried to do it in the late 70"s but its costs outweighed its returns.

We are looking at the option of building new vessels but the returns are not there, so we keep upgrading the one's we have . Might have to go visit the ex shipyard in Whyalla , sounds like they will have plenty of steel available. :p:p


Cheers Ean

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Funny you should say that, how good would it be for government to subsidise Whyalla to provide steel to manufacture new design trawlers for the Aussie fishing industry, built by small Aussie shipyards, and provide low interest loans for the fishermen. Win, win,win, but, none of the usual suspects would make a motza out of it, so that probably wont happen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ean Austral

Thanks Bob,


But all that post does is tell a simple minded dumb person like me the place has been doomed for a long time , its been death by 1000 cuts instead of a major heart attack.


I would quite happily tell the tax man to divert all my tax to save the place, but sadly I cant do that and those on welfare and all the other places where my tax $$ go wouldn't be happy.


Its a double edge sword, look at the employment that mining create during the GFC , if we didn't have that then where about s would we be ? I don't know as that's not my field, but I can guess. I wonder if the government during the resources boom had the foresight to realise that we were feeding the animal that was going to try and eat us to keep itself alive, I doubt it. keep digging holes and ship it out , keep the $$$ rolling into the coffers so we can waste it elsewhere.


The current management / board has to be held to account , they would have known they were in a troubled market , your post says so. Take the money , do the job , accept the consequences.


Don't get me wrong, the last thing I want to see is us ( Australia ) loose more key industries , but lets sort out the core problem first , before we just throw money at it to band aid the issue.


Cheers Ean

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EXACTLY,...FULL STOP...a realist at last.
Lots of waffle on here.....from the usual suspects,.....excluding you Frantic, because I know, from previous discussions, where you are coming from, (not that I agree with you & vice versa,....but I know that you do "care").
Like I said, don't confine your thoughts to Arium,...don't do that, because the issue here is a systemic problem for Aussie,.....EVERYWHERE.
Think, "UNSUSTAINABLE". In addition to this statement of MINE, which many of you will not agree with, and I KNOW that nothing that I could say will change your minds, I give you the following challenge. Just write todays date down, and remember what the conditions were, & when this lunatic (in your minds, I get that) (ME) said that we were going downhill. Diarize it, & see if there was any truth in what I prophesied,...I dare you.
Today is the day that is the best that it will ever be,...we are all downhill from here.
Pickles.

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Originally Posted by bob10

Funny you should say that, how good would it be for government to subsidise Whyalla to provide steel to manufacture new design trawlers for the Aussie fishing industry, built by small Aussie shipyards, and provide low interest loans for the fishermen. Win, win,win, but, none of the usual suspects would make a motza out of it, so that probably wont happen.

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It used to be that way funnily enough, you got a government subsidy which was enough to get you started and the shipyard also got a subsidy as well , but the keating government put a stop to it.


I am sure if it was re-introduced there would be a few take it up.


Cheers Ean

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Originally Posted by Ean Austral

What really caused Arium to be where it is would be a good start.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by bob10

I think it is safe to say, not one person here knows . It would be brilliant for Australian mainstream media to cut to the chase, and dig deep , in some real investigative journalism, but we know that is never going to happen.

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There is a series of article in the Fin. Review which outlines some of what is thought to be known about how Arrium ended up where it is.

Big banks 'bully' Arrium to appoint administrator McGrathNicol

Arrium defiant as it surrenders to creditors

Arrium hit by ANZ credit freeze