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anz again
losing count of the number of business people i come across that have been done over by them.
mate lost his business because of them last year without warning or good reason it seems
he is going them legally and has some big names backing him he tells me but cant divulge who as yet.
bring on that royal commission and i hope they include administrators in the mix as well.
ANZ?Quote:
Originally Posted by incisor
Dave, GET REAL.
This "problem" has NOTHING to do with "ANZ".....the issue is far far bigger than that, far bigger than "ANZ".
If it has, please tell me why, & also, why "ANZ" is the cause of Arium's current issues?...and please be SPECIFIC with respect to "ANZ".
Pickles.
get real yourselfQuote:
Originally Posted by Pickles2
the article above my comments mentions what anz did, go read it
i didn't say this problem was caused by anz how the hell do you draw that conclusion from what i said?
i mentioned what happened to my mate and it was definitely anz and now they are getting done for bringing in administrators without due cause it seems
i read a few lnp members want the inquiry into them to proceed as well over their behavior in the cattle industry.
geezus..
Nope,...RUBBISH.Quote:
Originally Posted by incisor
Put up the link to "ANZ", & I'll respond. This issue is systemic, and has nothing to do with ANZ, or any other bank, in terms of normal lending business practices,...of course if you are one who always wants to blame "THE BANKS", well go for it. I can remember not so long ago when people like Keating, & VERY recently Wayne Swan commented on the STRENGTH of our FOUR PILLARS, (our banks), & how their strength had enabled the survival of our financial/economic system, in the face of the GFC, and was one of the reasons why we withstood the GFC. Do you remember?
Just give me the link to "ANZ" & I'll respond, ...with FACTS,...relative to blame attributable to ANZ with respect to the position Arium finds itself in.
Pickles.
You are quite welcome to come back when you have something positive to say. Otherwise, please keep your doomsday thoughts to yourself. No offence meant. I'm sure there are plenty of members on General Chat who will share your views. Just not here, please.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickles2
Bob,....Positive thoughts?.....Love to hear 'em. If you've got some, feel free to tell me how ANYONE can have positive thoughts with respect to Arium. IF YOU HAVE THEM, feel free to advise me, and make me feel good. I will await your "good news" so that I can be more positive.Quote:
Originally Posted by bob10
For your info, I'm a self funded retiree, not rich (like Shorten would like to say), just a normal RESPONSIBLE person who has decided to look after himself & his family (from a very young age) without relying upon welfare, with respect to which I have never received ANYTHING.
I have bought a few shares, including BHP, to rely upon dividend for my income,...so that I don't have to rely upon welfare (Pension, if you don't understand) Dividend from BHP dropped by 75% this time, which means that I just may have to resort to claiming the pension. Is that good?...I don't think so,....Even more pressure on the system. I'll leave you to tell me whose fault that is. I await your response with very great interest.
Pickles.
if you cant click on the link containing the words "anz" in the post before my comments and read them then you need to stop and have a little think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickles2
no where did i say anz or the banks were to blame for the arrium mess
i am happy to say the anz taint helping much and it appears the other banks agree with me going by that article
enjoy your night.
OK Dave. I understand that. Let me also say that my comment "RUBBISH" was inappropriate, it is your opinion, to which you are entitled.Quote:
Originally Posted by incisor
I'll just say this. I worked in the Financial Sector for my whole working career, & I've seen literally thousands, maybe more, lending applications, and I've also seen almost as many "failed" Applications, ie, loans that have "gone bad".
Let me say this, NOBODY lends money if they don't think it's a sensible deal for a sensible practical purpose etc. That would be silly. Nor do Banks want to "foreclose", "call up" loans etc, unless they absolutely have to, because when they do that, they almost always "do their dough" with very little hope of recovering it.
And, there is also a limit that the bank, any bank, has to apply to any loan, and if that loan is not "performing", then there can be no further loans.
The Bank doesn't run any of these businesses, that is up to the company directors/board etc who make, hopefully, the correct decisions, so that the company is properly & profitably run as described in the loan application to the Bank, and it is also their responsibility to make proper use of those funds. And if those decisions/operations, or whatever cause the company to fail, then it is certainly not the fault of the Bank.
Anyway, I hope what I've said makes a little sense, if there's any questions, I'd be pleased to discuss.
And Bob, "Positive"?...Yes, I'd love to be positive, love to be. But like I've said, the Arium issue is, IMHO, the tip of the iceberg. I believe we are in for VERY hard times ahead. Very hard,...pleased to discuss that too. There are more & more demands upon the economy, the deficit is growing rapidly every day. Interest rates are at an all time low. Now with the deficit increasing, what will it be in a few years, I hate to think, & if interest rates go up to somewhere near normal, say 7 or 8%, how will we repay the debt, & what effect will that have on the economy, and,....You & I? Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, so,..... I'd welcome some "positive" comments from you, which may "relieve my anguish"?
Pickles.
And so it goes on.
Today the Electrolux plant in NSW is closing. There were originally 1850 people employed here, but now, only 300, who will be losing their jobs.
Manufacture of the product will continue,...Guess where,.....in Thailand. Another one,....going off shore. I'll leave the answer as to the reason why for others to answer.
Like I said, "Tip Of The Iceberg"?
Pickles.
I have been watching this thread, as I recall several days ago that an Arrium employee claimed that wages were not that high and most earned $95K.
Now at the time i thought gee $95 K would be pretty good in a small town like Whyalla where houses should only be say 300K. ( unless of course it is like Karratha where houses were outrageous due to capapcity to pay)
So today in the Australian I read an Article by Robert Gottliebson which states the following.
QUOTE
Here some of the clauses that locked Arrium into administration in the event that the prices for its products fell:
? Wages levels are way above the award. An entry-level trade person begins at $120,476 and a level-5 tradie is on $160,631, with another increase to $165,450 due in March 2017. Production workers entry-level wage begins at $95,783 and tops out at $130,188.
Then there are the clauses that crippled flexibility and reduced management control:
? Union delegates are entitled to 10 days paid union training leave per year and afforded paid time, to ?interview a representative of the company on matters affecting employees?. This gives the union enormous power.
? Union notice boards are provided and the company cannot remove union notices unless special conditions apply.
? If the company restructures, and people are put into lower paying jobs, their old rate of pay is maintained forever, which cancels out the whole point of the exercise.
? If an employee with at least two years? service is declassified to a lower pay scale, not only do they stay on their old pay rate, but also the pay rate keeps rising in line with the rises due to the old rate for another two years.
? In the event the mine closes, redundancy pay is 4 weeks per year capped at 104 weeks.
? Where a redundancy is caused by innovation or mechanisation or new technology, the company must add an extra 3 months? notice or pay, on top of the two years.
? Arrium staff with a long-term, non-work related illness, for the purpose of ?added financial security?, are able to 'reasonably expect continued financial support? at their normal rates of pay for up to 12 months, and longer if they are expected to return shortly to the workplace.
QUOTE
The article also states that the banks suffered from "Groupthink" that made them make the stupid decision to loan billions to the company unsecured.
So should the rest of Australia support a company where the unions greed and spineless management has contributed greatly to its own demise?
Regards Philip A