Reply With QuoteProbably a good thing - you seem to be the only one that can't discuss this in an adult, grown up manner.Originally Posted by MrLandy
Would I climb it? No, but while it is legal to do so, I don't see why others can't to be honest.
YarnMaster
SupporterI was out at Ayers Rock in 67 or 68. It rained.
No other bugger there at all . Black or White.
Parked the Landy under the outcrop for a Camp.
Climbed it then. Wont climb it again.
Keith
Super Moderator & CA manager
SubscriberProbably a good thing - you seem to be the only one that can't discuss this in an adult, grown up manner.
Would I climb it? No, but while it is legal to do so, I don't see why others can't to be honest.
If you need to contact me please email homestarrunnerau@gmail.com - thanks - Gav.
Master
I stated it at the start and I will state it again. As someone who is part Aboriginal, and I am pretty sure I am the only one who has commented so far who can actually say that - he is right.
It is racist, simple as that. If a whole race of people have a set of beliefs and you choose to willingly trample on it, quite literally in this case - then really you are being racist. Badging it as "well I am being civil and trying to discuss this like an adult" and jumping down someones throat who has pointed this out won't change it.
If you say something about someone of Jewish heritage it is racist, even if they don't actually practice Judaism.
If someone of Aboriginal heritage is offended, then it's racist, it may not be meant as such so you could say it's at the very least disrespectful, or insensitive.
Someone sitting there and saying it isn't racist and to calm down, don't be offended while saying something that offends a race of people doesn't help the situation either.
I am big enough to realise that there are people out there who don't care and will climb it anyway - am I ok with that, no, not in the slightest. I also realise that no matter what I say, people will sit here and tell me not to be offended etc - but until you are Aboriginal, sit down, shut up and don't pretend like you know how the people feel and tell me not to be offended.
TopicToaster
G'Day Bob.
OF COURSE they are. And,like I said, anyone is allowed to walk around the Sanctuary where the Blessed Sacraments are kept,...as long as there is respect.
Pickles.
TopicToaster
YES!!...That's the one,....I knew someone would know.
Pickles.
TopicToaster
You are entitled to your opinion, as we all are, but simply because we do not agree with you, we do not, "call you names" or speak of you in derogatory terms. You ought to learn from that.
As far as the thoughts of the traditional owners are concerned,....YOU ARE WRONG.
The facts are, and you can google it, because you obviously wouldn't believe what I say,..50% want it closed,...the other 50% want it closed, BUT made more safe for climbing, and then they want to charge for climbing,....with which I have said, I've no issues with.
Anyway, Aussie is not for anyone, it's for EVERYONE,....like I said there's "Sacred Sites" everywhere,...doesn't mean we're not allowed to go there.
Most members on this site are respectful, decent people,...simply because you do not agree, does not mean they are the people who fit the description you so immaturely describe.
Pickles.
NB: I've just noticed in later posts by you, that you say you are "out", so I do not expect a response.
SysAdmin (Owner)
from the outset i have been of the opinion that this was a religious discussion
the moderators disagreed so the thread has continued
i continue to believe it is religious because it is a discussion based on belief systems.
there are always going to be strong opinions on a subject like this, even the current owners cannot agree.
threads like this are why we don't allow religious discussion on this site any longer as the quality of public debate has declined to the point that it always descends into personalities and name calling.
if people continue to play the man instead of the subject the thread, i will over ride the moderators wishes and the thread will be closed.
thank you...
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2012 SZ Territory TX 2.7 TDCi
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YarnMaster
Hi,
An observation.
The climb or not debate was absent when we camped there in 1976.
The only retail outlet at Ayers Rock in 1976 sold "I climbed Ayers Rock" T shirts and there was no dissenting opinion that we detected.
The only people we saw in 3 days were of European origin.
There were no entry fees.
The Fertility Cave was only notated on a map.
We saw no signs or notices prohibiting any entry or activity.
We were in total awe of the country, geology, and of a people who could have ever lived and thrived in an environment that for us was totally unsurvivable.
A question or two.
What has changed?
Presumably the beliefs have not, is it the industrial scale tourism that has started this squabble?
What would be the reaction/consequences of either side of this debate if all (commercial and individual) tourism was removed?
An opinion.
No I won't climb it again, in fact having seen the commercial acreage from Google Earth I have no desire to ever return.
Cheers
Sent from my GT-N5110 using AULRO mobile app
I understood the locals made it clear they didn't want it climbed at the time of the original agreement but were overruled and the best concession they could get was agreement for signs to be erected asking people not to climb. Is that right?
More than 40,000 years of indigenous settlement has to be respected by us recent arrivals.
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-0...alians/7858376
Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app
Master
Yep, that's correct - I stated as such on the first page.
I would completely understand if this thread was deleted - I doubt there will be agreement on this ever so I don't see the point in keeping the thread alive. My 2 cents on it Inc.
Pickles -
I think you will find the fact that the population who wants it closed and made more safe are from a group who realise they are facing a large rock sized battle getting people to not climb. Every death on Uluru is felt personally by them, it isn't that they want you to climb it, it's just a realisation and acceptance that people will climb and this helps their conscience.
It's a sacred site beyond what an everyday church is - it was a rite of passage, and something even the tribesman did rarely so likening it to a sacred part of a church isn't the same thing.
Australia is for everyone, but what ever happened to the Australia that embraced peoples cultural differences and made them our own? Most of our national identity we have borrowed from other nation's and their customs and put our own spin on it and as a nation we are better for it.
Aboriginals are our nation's first people, and yet the little things we can do easily we don't do (like not climb Uluru, recognise them in our constitution etc), which just further divides us. An inclusive nation and recognition and respect of all peoples is what our nation was built on, and what makes it one of the best places in the world to live.
If you understand that it is sacred to the people who have lived there for generation after generation and don't want you to climb it, and you still do - that is something that you have to live with. If you constantly disregard other people's beliefs and trample over them, then little wonder they are inclusive and don't integrate/contribute to society like they would if you gave them the respect they deserve - you don't then get to have the right to complain about this. This is not just limited to climbing Uluru, it's everything in life.
It's what Australia was built on, and something that we need to continue. If you can do your small little part by not climbing Uluru, and instead taking one of the cultural tours and learning about what Uluru means to the people then it could go a long way to helping. Little changes in behaviour create greater and more meaningful change.
Joe
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