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Thread: Running 3-phase gear off single-phase power.

  1. #1
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    Running 3-phase gear off single-phase power.

    rather than continue to hijack another thread, I thought I would post this as a new topic. I did some research into this when I bought my lathe (actually my wife bought it for me for my 50th birthday, but that involved me doing the choosing, the buying, the drive to Sydney and towing it home, etc...), it's a big machine with a 3hp 3-phase main motor and a separate 1/8hp 3-phase motor for the coolant pump.
    There are essentially 3 ways to run a 3-phase motor off single phase input. One is to use a capacitor wired into one leg of the single-phase input, and, via a momentary switch, the capacitor is used as a starter, i.e. the motor is switched on via a normal on/off switch and the momentary switch is held for about half a second to start the motor, then the motor continues to run on 2 of the 3 legs. This works in low-load situations, the motor will only produce 2/3 of it's rated power. I've wired the coolant pump motor on my lathe this way. There are diagrams for this readily available on the web.

    Another way is with what's called a 'rotary phase convertor', this uses a separate 3-phase motor as an idler which, by powerful white-man magic, produces the third phase. The idler motor is generally started with a capacitor as above, or in really basic setups can be pull-started with a cord like a mower. Rotary convertors can be set up as a plug-in, wheel-around unit with a 3-phase socket (or several) that you can plug any 3-phase machine into, or multiple machines up to it's rated output. No alteration is necessary to the machine itself. These are available as commercially produced units; in fact, a good friend of mine has just established a business manufacturing these units for domestic and commercial applications. A machine plugged into one of these units will behave exactly as if connected to 3-phase mains power.

    A third way is to wire the 3-phase motor via a Variable Frequency Drive (VFD) as mentioned in another thread. Like this one (incredibly cheap): eBay Australia: Buy new & used fashion, electronics & home d

    These units can only run one motor, and if running an existing machine, like my lathe, from a VFD the machine has to be re-wired so that the single-phase input goes into the VFD input, the VFD output goes directly to the 3-phase motor, and all switching is done via the VFD. I stripped all the 3-phase wiring out of my lathe and re-wired the machine so that the original switches now act as controls for the low-voltage switching circuitry of the VFD. You can't just set it up to plug a machine into, as you can't have any switching between the VFD's 3-phase output and the motor. A benefit of the VFD is that it provides a speed control for the motor, which is a boon on machines like lathes and big drill presses etc.

    I'm surprised more people with home workshops aren't aware of this stuff. My neighbour sold his 3-phase lathe when he moved here as he couldn't run it, he was spewing when I showed him my 3-phase lathe running off single-phase power. Again, there's heaps of info on all these methods on the interweb.

  2. #2
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    Just gotta watch the power draw and the motors start up current.

    you can in a pinch on some electric motors just wire up the single phase and so long as you give them a rolling start and let them get up to speed they'll work.
    Dave

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  3. #3
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    POD, how efficient are they - ie what rating single phase input do you need to run for a 3hp motor like you're using?

    Steve
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  4. #4
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    One of my sons uses a VFD for his mill, having recently moved from a 3-phase site to single phase. He just has to start it slowly to avoid current overload.
    MY21.5 L405 D350 Vogue SE with 19s. Produce LLAMS for LR/RR, Jeep GC/Dodge Ram
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  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=POD;1852527] You can't just set it up to plug a machine into, as you can't have any switching between the VFD's 3-phase output and the motor. QUOTE]

    You can, but you run into complications with the switching contactors on the machine. If you have the VVF controller set to the standard frequency and voltage of the machine, you can have the controller running continously, and operate the machine as normal. You would be able to run the coolant pump as well under this system.

    Cheers, Mick.
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  6. #6
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    Yonks ago when Brisbane City Council was our electricity supplier, I acquired a large Mars lathe (three tons) which had a three phase motor of around 4 horsepower.
    I applied to the electricity dept. to have a three phase service connected. I was told I had to first apply to town planning. Town planning virtually refused then to permit three phase in a residential A zoning unless you were up a long easement and voltage drop was a factor. They feared you were going to be running a factory or business in a Res. A zone. I eventually acquired a used 240 volt motor of quite some age and physical size, 4.5 horsepower. Starting up caused lights to brown out and tv picture to momentarily reduce to postage stamp size. I had good neighbours who were amused rather than annoyed. Besides I did their little machining jobs. The electricity dept. said the solution was for them to fit a residential pole transformer on my service. They gave me a quote which shocked me and I didn't go ahead, just kept using the existing supply.
    URSUSMAJOR

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blknight.aus View Post
    Just gotta watch the power draw and the motors start up current.

    you can in a pinch on some electric motors just wire up the single phase and so long as you give them a rolling start and let them get up to speed they'll work.
    Pffft.

  8. #8
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    Phase convertors are the best, you can buy one just up the road in longwarry

    With 2 phase you can "growl" a motor, but it's pretty crude, with one phase you ain't doing lick, without a vsd or converter

    Single phase to 3 phase vsd's only go up in size so much

  9. #9
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    a star wound single phase motor will run on a single phase, just, if you get it started...

    Wouldnt want to be using it to try and drive a compressor.
    Dave

    "In a Landrover the other vehicle is your crumple zone."

    For spelling call Rogets, for mechanicing call me.

    Fozzy, 2.25D SIII Ex DCA Ute
    Tdi autoManual d1 (gave it to the Mupion)
    Archaeoptersix 1990 6x6 dual cab(This things staying)


    If you've benefited from one or more of my posts please remember, your taxes paid for my skill sets, I'm just trying to make sure you get your monies worth.
    If you think you're in front on the deal, pay it forwards.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rovercare View Post
    Phase convertors are the best, you can buy one just up the road in longwarry
    A mutual friend also makes them in Drouin Matt.

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