Thread: Large Caravan TARE weights

this one?

Being a caravanner, one of the things that create the most discussion/advice/vitriol on the vanning forums is the issue of weights. Along with wdh, bloody rated shackles. Quotes often misplaced or incorrect from State rules, ADR’s etc. everyone seems to know a bloke whose second cousin’s grandmother was pulled over for a weight check and made to park beside the road until they offloaded excess weight. That’s why when I did my research for an appropriate tug vehicle I settled on the Disco. Overengineered for our 2800kg (weighed) 250kg downball weight, 25ft van. Plenty out there that buy a dual cab because the sales pitch says “it can tow 3.5 tonne” without taking gvm into account. From my understanding, the 10% is the guide manufacturers use. Total Weights NEVER seem to be accurate from the manufacturers and then some new owners whack on tackboxes, extra water tanks, weight on the rear end where it wasn’t designed and bike racks etc etc.

Don’t talk to me about the arguments over wdh’s and Disco’s.

Trevor

[QUOTE=vbrab;2836249]Have been in katherine NT for past 4 months and probably get to see the biggest fleet of road travellers anywhere passing through, many with large caravans.
It seems all state police intend to start targeting caravanners for their tow ball weights and total caravan weight being towed.
(Some rigs did look a bit scary with the front wheel almost off the ground, or the back of the vehicle almost touching the road.)

Just wondering what the average tandem (dual axle) caravans of 5.5 to 6 meters would be at TARE weight?
Have noticed that most seem to be about 1900- 2300kgs (TARE).
Is that about the average TARE weight of a large caravan?
Australian design rules allow for minimum 10% at towball, and evidently prefer <15% for "safety", which might start to put a loaded caravan of that size beyond the allowed towing capacity of many vehicles (possibly except Land Rovers). Which is likely why the pilce have announce a plan to target caravan travellers.

My interest is that having built a 6 meter enclosed trailer totally of aluminium with a TARE of 1175kgs (wasn't intended as a caravan because it runs tri-axle, which adds 200kgs), I'm wondering if switching to all aluminium construction for caravans (chassis N' all), might start to look like a viable option, especially as vehicles become lighter (as in the new Disco), and as the police start to crack down on overall/towball weight.

Hi a week before Christmas 2017 at Yarragon on the Princes Hyw. Vic. the police were pulling up all caravans and checking tow ball capacity and tare on all vans and there were quite a few over the limit allowed. Some people appeared to be quite ignorant of the fact that there was a limit on there towing vehicle to the weight on the tow ball.

Originally Posted by PhilipA

I



Also there is a demand for immense chassis on off road vans. I would love to see what finite item analysis would make of the chassis on off road vans. but if they were lightened then people probably would not buy them, as they would "look weak".



Regards Philip A

Most caravan and trailer builders wouldn't know how to do a structural "stress" analysis on their structures, never mind a "fatigue" analysis, as for a "finite element" design, Well??? .......................and as far as I know there is no regulatory requirement to provide such design analysis to the regulatory authorities.

Cheers

RF

Was at the Brisbane caravan and camping show recently and there were heaps of dual axle vans there all in 2500kg -2800 kg tare weight region. All big chassis etc etc. did overhear some people interested in buying being told that “no your Prado can’t tow this”. But lots out there and lots of space to fill with more crap/weight. Seemed the emphasis was on size/bang for buck. What I thought were “real” campers the Complete Campsite/AOR/Mountain Trail was very small part of the show. These were all significantly lighter, more expensive and only people that appeared interested were not your first time buyer or average punter. I reckon many are in for a world of hurt so many we saw and heard had little to no towing experience and were leaping into 23’ tandem caravans cause they could get one for 60+k as opposed to a Complete Campsite much smaller less frills but 100k.

Originally Posted by vbrab

Have been in katherine NT for past 4 months and probably get to see the biggest fleet of road travellers anywhere passing through, many with large caravans.
It seems all state police intend to start targeting caravanners for their tow ball weights and total caravan weight being towed.
(Some rigs did look a bit scary with the front wheel almost off the ground, or the back of the vehicle almost touching the road.)

Just wondering what the average tandem (dual axle) caravans of 5.5 to 6 meters would be at TARE weight?
Have noticed that most seem to be about 1900- 2300kgs (TARE).
Is that about the average TARE weight of a large caravan?
Australian design rules allow for minimum 10% at towball, and evidently prefer <15% for "safety", which might start to put a loaded caravan of that size beyond the allowed towing capacity of many vehicles (possibly except Land Rovers). Which is likely why the pilce have announce a plan to target caravan travellers.

My interest is that having built a 6 meter enclosed trailer totally of aluminium with a TARE of 1175kgs (wasn't intended as a caravan because it runs tri-axle, which adds 200kgs), I'm wondering if switching to all aluminium construction for caravans (chassis N' all), might start to look like a viable option, especially as vehicles become lighter (as in the new Disco), and as the police start to crack down on overall/towball weight.

Any thoughts on that?

I think 10% TBW was an older recommendation and possibly still is for single axle Vans. Guide I've read is 7 to 15% of Tare/loaded.
My Jayco My17 Silverline Outback 21' compliance plate states that it is 155kg empty and the tare is 2791kg. ATM 3266 -- FYI.

I would have liked to have been offered an alloy chassis instead of Jayco 6" and galv'd chassis. Bro in Law's new Bush Tracker alloy chassis saved about 400kg compared to steel version option.
1 reason for changing from my D4 to me Disco series 5 - performance and fuel saving VERY noticeable with alloy chassis.
With my previous D4 - tare 2500kg towing a smaller 18 ft Elite single axle tare 2200kg although good, the effort towing a 2791kg tare dual axle van was lot easier- stable. More so than I thought it might have been (the other way round). Towing the Elite taller off-roader used a small margin MORE fuel than the lower, more stream lined and smooth front Silverline for same driving conditions. How much better if it was lighter.

[QUOTE=rodg;2837246]

Originally Posted by vbrab

Hi a week before Christmas 2017 at Yarragon on the Princes Hyw. Vic. the police were pulling up all caravans and checking tow ball capacity and tare on all vans and there were quite a few over the limit allowed. Some people appeared to be quite ignorant of the fact that there was a limit on there towing vehicle to the weight on the tow ball.

There was also a check point at Numerella a while back organised by TOG, CMCA and a couple of others as an education process. The results were interesting. A large percentage of vanners slightly overweight and, as mentioned, most had no idea of what weight they were towing. All except for a couple of gross defects were allowed to tootle on their way with more info than they had. A very proactive and useful approach.

trevor

Yes, VicPol and Vicroads have both said they will be conducting more of these proactive days over the coming years to help educate Vanners about weights and safe towing. They also said they weren't looking to book people for minor infringements and time soon which I think is a good approach.