Thread: Defender Puma 2.2 - voice your issues

Originally Posted by voltron

I personally dont believe Toyota have just as many problems as Landrovers, as Toyota does outsell them quite a bit. You can't compare the two vehicles anyway, but if you want and easy 4wd then the toyota would be the pick. I loved my Defender despite the grief and miss it to bits

Voltron,

Mate you will be stunned and surprised if you actually saw the true figures from Toyota. Their percentages are in reality unlikely to be lower than Land Rover's, and if you consider their sales volumes, it is significant...

I have a mate in the UK working as consultant statistician who compile compulsory disclosed consumer data, which most of the motoring companies subscribe to to gauge their performance against their competitors. While he's governed by protection of data clauses and intellectual property regulations I have gleaned some snippets of information.

Word wide examples:

2014 Toyota Prado front diff failures - Between 3.2% and 3.5% of all units sold as well as an undisclosed "significant warranty fix" during scheduled servicing.
2014 Toyota Hilux manual gearbox failures - Between 3.4% and 3.8% of all units sold - The manual still only has a 5 speed box which has a tendency to shear the 5th gear clean off, a design flaw they've chosen not to fix as the bulk supply of gearboxes just makes it easier (and cheaper) to replace under warranty.

You certainly won't see that in their sales brochures, and they have dedicated business development resources managing the situation so nobody ever "hears" about these known issues.

Most of us read the "Oh what a lemon" website and blog of a Land Cruiser 200 Series owner's spectacular list of issues before Toyota took legal action and shut it down.

See the below note from Toyota to the dealer principles - its a few years old now, but it gives you the idea that they have significant issues with oil leaks not really made public knowledge.

[ame]http://blkmav.com/myswag/200ttd.pdf[/ame]

The difference being that the vast majority of Toyota drivers prefer to talk Toyota up, most of their forums have rules that you're not allowed the talk negatively of Toyota and any naysayers gets chucked off before they get the chance to say anything and those posts gets deleted.

Do yourself a favor and try and Google anything negative about Toyota... Bet you find nothing, but believe me its not because there aren't anything...

Cheers,

Lou

Good post above,

I think that the general population get the Toyota brand rammed down their throat so much via advertising that they honestly believe that hilux, cruiser or whatever is the one and only when it comes to 4x4.

I am waiting patiently for my new Defender regardless of any issues it may or may not have. It is a mechanical beast after all and that is what I like.

Bloody hell Lou,how is it both you and Tombie can post up info based on fact like that no worries yet when I do it I'm flamed as a one eyed blinkered Land Rover tragic who bends over while making excuses?. Pat

Pat,

My personal opinion is that Land Rover has over the years just sort of stood the high ground and absorbed the flack instead of hiding it or fighting it.

How many people have over the years told you that Land Rover's are unreliable and prone to failure. We know that its generally rubbish, but why get into an argument with someone less informed?

The far eastern brands have gone out of their way to style their marketing and product base around a perceived image based on bulk sales and accordingly the Hilux is Australia's "favorite" ute. This is purely based on volume of sales as 300 failures in 10,000 is much easier to hide than 3 failures in 100...

Same as you, I'm obviously a Land Rover "tragic" to coin a phrase and I don't really care for other brand's marketing, but it gets my goat up when one of the 3 in 100 failures is used to smear an entire model run of a specific vehicle purely because the marque chooses not to hide the fact.

Cheers,

Lou

Originally Posted by PAT303

Bloody hell Lou,how is it both you and Tombie can post up info based on fact like that no worries yet when I do it I'm flamed as a one eyed blinkered Land Rover tragic who bends over while making excuses?. Pat

Keep the faith Pat

Originally Posted by LouisW

... it is classless the queen drives one, royalty, many millionaires, and ordinary people ...

I'm not ordinary or a millionaire. I must be royalty.

Originally Posted by 51mondays

Yes and no...I do like the Hilux as well, and it has its own good history and icon-ness. The defender just has more.

There are other reasons - I like the wagon, I like the ride of the defender. Don't do hardcore off road but plenty of time in 4wd and plenty of towing.

Mainly I like things that last forever and the defender was meant to last forever but now it's ending production, so I'm panicking.

Hi 51mondays, MsLandy here....
When I first moved to Australia, I wanted to purchase a vehicle for some 4WD adventures. We don't have Defenders in the States and the marketing bombardment (as mentioned by Lou) that Toyota puts through the US made me hellbent on buying a Land Cruiser. I can't tell you how grateful I am now that the stars aligned...

You "like the wagon," you "like the ride of the Defender," and you "like things that last forever." As the production of the Defender is ending, it seems clear that the timing is perfect for you to make the leap... a decision you will hopefully never regret and enjoy something that will, indeed, last forever.

Originally Posted by 51mondays

thanks folks


well that's where i'm going wrong you see - I am comparing a defender to my late model hilux. and the Toyota always seems so damn sensible when I get back into it.


I love the noise of the landy, the way it rides (reminds me a bit of the 1972 combi I once had). I love the way it looks. I just don't wanna drop $50k into a hole. There is so much sense and nonsense online one can't make head nor tail of what's right. I am shocked by all the stories of clutches/rear diffs, TCs, gearboxes, electrics, finishing the last 10% of the car blah blha bbjbjfas. I do like the motor, I wish LR just built the body/ driveshaft with a bit more care.


I'm just nervous. I don't even know what i'm asking anymore.


I like what you're saying LouisW - but how much did you pay for your dog?


I recon the sensible thing to do is probably just man-up and sign-up...and see what happens.

I got my defender in sept 2014, without a test drive, I blame this forum, took it for a 5000 km spin to Birdsville etc over two weeks, parked it up and I went back to PNG. Got to home airport and hopped in the near new Hilux, my immediate reaction was, what's wrong with this POS. Nothing , but it's not the Defender ! Btw back in the Deefer on Sunday