crook alpine diesel

**dromader driver** · 14th June 2013, 04:07 PM

ABC radio reporting Alpine diesel is not suitable for operations below minus 5 C.
Concern about fuel in freezing parts of the south east
Posted Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:09am AEST

A resident on the New South Wales Monaro has raised concerns about the quality of diesel fuel now that the colder weather is setting in.

Cooma ratepayer Michael Newman says diesel being delivered to the region is not working very well in cold temperatures.

It often drops below minus five degrees in the mountains, but Mr Newman says the fuel being sold is only meant to be used at minus five or above.

“I spoke to a fuel representative and they said the temperature is a standard minus one, however they can achieve an extra four degrees when they add whatever they have to add to it and get you the so-called alpine winter mix.

“So the best they can do is down to minus five,” Mr Newman said.

Mr Newman says the mix needs to be improved because the temperature often drops far below minus five degrees.

He says the problem has been getting increasingly worse over the past few years.

“Someone making a decision that a minus five temperature is okay but I don't think they looked at a weather map.

“We can get temperatures down to minus ten, minus 15,” Mr Newman said.

The NRMA says changing fuel standards is partly to blame for problems being experienced with alpine fuel mixes.

The organisation’s spokesman, Alan Evans says there are a number of solutions that could be implemented.

“One is not only to have a diesel fuel which operates at lower temperatures but also your lubricating oil have to operate at lower temperatures, which often doesn't happen.

“But then you're seriously looking at the sort of systems you have in North America, in Canada, in Europe where you've got heaters in car engines which you plug in at night to make sure your engine lubricating oil stays fluid,” Mr Evans said.

Mr Evans says people need to be warned that their car may not be appropriate for driving in very cold conditions.

“We have to start really informing people that the diesel car you buy to toodle round the suburbs of Sydney may not necessarily be the car you should take to the snow for a weekend unless you've taken all the measures to protect your vehicle.”

Top up with some kero or Jet A1.

**101RRS** · 14th June 2013, 04:39 PM

Is there a real problem or is normal fuel being flogged off as alpine fuel?

Normal fuel was normally good to about freezing so I am surprised that alpine is not much better. I think that this is just a bit of a beat up as in the depths of winter up in the snow fields diesels are still starting and running in the mornings - even though some have half a tank of Sydney fuel and half a tank of Cooma alpine fuel.

Surely if this was a real issue, lots of cars would not be starting up in the snow in the mornings and this is clearly not the case.

garry

**Greyfox** · 14th June 2013, 05:27 PM

Me thinks this is another " man made global warming scam"

But then again this is only my opinion and what do I known ?

**Blknight.aus** · 14th June 2013, 06:01 PM

Ive had normal diesel down to a garaged -10 with no problems, its the extra cooling that wind chill can produce that causes more problems.

But I suspect that thats not the case in this instance. What follows is speculation based on my personal experience when I was first playing with bio and was in albury

the fuel may contain a permissable amount of biodiesel, This is the bit thast doesnt like the cold, when it starts to cool and gel it blocks things and prevents proper fuel system function.

**jazzaD1** · 14th June 2013, 06:32 PM

Originally Posted by Greyfox

Me thinks this is another " man made global warming scam"

But then again this is only my opinion and what do I known ?

care to explain?

**Dougal** · 14th June 2013, 07:44 PM

Sounds like you get the budget winter diesel. Past - 5 is no problem for the good stuff.
But there are tradeoffs with winterising diesel which is why is not done until necessary.

**Summiitt** · 15th June 2013, 06:07 PM

My diesel supplier was late on the winter mix change over, we are currently working at about 1550m, with morning temps at about -8ish, if I can get motors running, often they will de wax themselves with engine heat, as most of the waxing seems to be happening in the top injector lines, depending on whether it's an excavator or generator or truck. As for half non winter and half winter diesel, I've dewaxed a frozen fuel system with as little as 5litres in 60litres, it really doesn't take much...luckily the suppliers have now changed over to the proper winter diesel.

**dromader driver** · 15th June 2013, 06:14 PM

Summit,
are you working near Charlottes or Mt Jagungal at that altitude??

**goingbush** · 15th June 2013, 07:29 PM

a bit OT but Interesting paper here on a Diesel engine used for high altitude operation in Antarctica,

http://www.phys.unsw.edu.au/~mcba/pubs/hen10a.pdf

Engine (with fuel) is frozen to -90c then thawed and started at room temp -40c

A comparison of fuel types showed the freezing points to be
Diesel -35
SAB (Special Antarctic Blend) -35
Jet A1 -47

the best fuel is Jet A1 with a dash of 2T 2stroke oil

btw SAB is approx 30% Heating Oil , 70% Diesel

Read recently that development testing of the Td5 was done using JetA1 fuel
and it can happily run on straight Jet fuel (aka kerosine)

**Eevo** · 15th June 2013, 07:51 PM

stupid question:

why cant they use winter diesel all year round?

too expensive?
dont work in summer?

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