Td5 vs tdci

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Originally Posted by TimNZ

Oh good, another thread that is going to descend into a TDCi/Td5/Tdi bashing thread. Been a while since we had one.

Have a good day,

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I actually enjoy reading these types of Posts and the debates they bring.... For me, it's a great way of finding out & learning what are the "Pluses" and "Minuses" of each version.
Learning what the "potential" issues that people are having with the various models (TD5 / TDCi) helps me determine what Defender model would suit me in the future should I ever want to upgrade.

I'm still very green in learning about Defenders and I currently have a Tdi 110 in my backyard that I'm hoping to get registered in the coming months.
Once registered, hopefully if in the end I like the Defender but would like a newer version, then these sorts of discussions I find useful in learning or knowing what sort of problems &/or changes there are with the different models / years.... (eg: I didn't realise that the later TD5's had a different rear diff to the earlier TD5's)

Costs: People have said that the TD5 is way more costly to maintain than the TDi, but how does the Puma engine compare cost wise to the TD5 to maintain.....? or hasn't the Puma been out longer enough (ie: done big kms) to come to a conclusion ??

BTW: While everyone is comparing engines here....... Here's one for the PUMA owners.... Which Puma engine would be more reliable (ie: give u less problems) long Term - 2.4 or 2.2?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robmacca

My question is - Does this apply to the Ford 2.4 &/or 2.2 engines?

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No.

MLD

I currently have a td5 my03, and a puma my13. I previously had a puma my09. I like the comfort of the puma for driving, the seats are better, dash nicer, heating better, rear seat has a center proper lap sash seat belt. The Puma drives much better than a stock td5.

I still think the TD5 was better built. When they went to the PUMA they cheapened a lot of minor components - for example silly things like the reflectors are a stick on job on the PUMA, but are bolted on on the TD5. The TD5 has much better seam sealant application. The center console is better built on the TD5. There is no covering on the rear of the front seat box.

BUT My TD5 has been performance tuned with a bruce davis ECU/exhaust/ egr etc. and it now goes extremely well - actually better than the PUMA stock engine. I have a hill that I performance test on,

110 td5 stock 60kmh
my09 110 puma 2.4 stock - 70
my13 110 puma 2.2 stock - 75
110 td5 tuned - 85+
(loan vehicle) Discovery sport - 80..!!!
(loan vehicle) Discovery 4 (full fat diesel) 90....

So yes - the Puma is better for my requirements - kids etc, but I still prefer to drive the TD5! Plus my dog can hear me coming home at least 10km from home!

Maintenance wise - I have had some eye watering bills keeping my td5 on the road - large enough that it paid me to lease the new defenders every 4 years - but I could not sell that td5... Over the years I've averaged $5000 at least a year on maintenance - clutch/flywheel/rear axle/harmonic balancer and then several useful mods - gearbox cooler - bruce davis tune - etc. But I do tend to have things fixed properly.

The maintenance costs between the Puma & TD5 - how do they compare?
If one is really a lot higher than the other.... why?

If you shop around you can get some pretty cheap puma ford branded parts, especially fuel system items ie, vcv valves and injectors, which is probably the main area to be concerned about with a common rail diesel motor.
Even the garret vgt turbo on a tdci is relatively cheap.
i think it's quite reassuring knowing this as these items WILL need replacing at some stage.

Just opening up this old thread to gain some extra info..... (hopefully no arguments :) )

Comparing the Tdci 2.2 vs the 2.4. - Does the later 2.2 have a Diesel Particular Filter (DPF)?

Tdci 2.4ltr vs TD5 in regards to TOWING:

I eventually want to upgrade from my old TDi to something newer that will meet all our needs in the future which are:

• Reliability for Remote Touring with the wife/kids
• Good offroad Ability for my weekend and midweek bush exploring
• The ability to TOW our Caravan (around 2T or a bit less in weight) comfortably.
• Not break the bank all the time when it comes to servicing....

I been told the following about the TD5:

> Can handle poorer quality Fuels
> Can handle a bigger lift (if req'd) than the PUMA
> Less Electronics/Sensors than the PUMA, therefore, potentially possibly relatively easier to fix? (not sure about this one)
> Issues with Oil in Harness (solvable); Oil Pump Bolt (all should have been fixed by now); Exhaust Manifolds warping (again, solvable); there was another thing that related to oil/water that I can't remember, something about running the wrong coolant resulting in corrosion and oil ingress into the coolant or visa versa....
> Better FUEL Economy than the PUMA

I been told the following about the PUMA 2.4:

> Hose rubbing issues / Turbo intercooler Hose issues (solvable)
> Limited to really only a 2" lift w/o some costly mods, bigger lift > bigger $$ req'd
> Issues with interconnecting shaft/spline between the Gearbox and Transfer case. Major failure point due to no lubrication and eventual spline failure (again, solvable but costly too)
> Weaker Driveline but this also solvable
> Better A/C and Heater than TD5 - More car like interior which the missus might prefer?
> Poorer FUEL Economy than the TD5
> More Power/Torque available from the PUMA engines, therefore better Towing Vehicle ??
> Better overall Gearing than the TD5

# The cost to Tweak the PUMA vs the Cost to Tweak the TD5 - Which is more costly??

Don't know which engine will last longer, but I would assume with regular servicing, etc, that both engines would last a very long time?

I would like to hear from others their towing ability of their Defenders (TD5's/Puma's)?
(Please, feel free to correct anything that I have mentioned above that is wrong)

cheers...
rob

The puma has a much nicer interior. That's where it ends for me. I've driven both and read much about both. And I'd buy a 2004+ Td5.

Rob,I've towed my Cub Camper all over WA,the TDCi tows fine,as for outback reliability,I've driven mine to more places than 90% of 4wd's will ever go without issue's.I'll stand by my original comments,the TDCi is the best Defender. Pat

Id have a Td5 Deefer any day and i have had one previously Thanks ex:bat:
Power wise in standard form i think the tdci has the edge[wink11]
Who ever you ask will always give a biased reply [bigwhistle]
I am still not convinced the tdci Puma and its quirks is a option even tho there are some among us that sprout their gospel but for me it`s a no brainer [thumbsupbig]
So what if the dash looks better that is not going to help when that stupid spud shaft spits its splines out:soapbox:
The flash dash is not going to help when the stupid int cooler hose rubs through:soapbox:
The gay dash is not going to help you prime fuel[wink11]
Oh and that dash is not going to help with the crappy t/c when it craps it self.
Wow am i sounding biased [bigwhistle]

I'm not sure if I will be welcome here, so I'll just keep moving right along....

😮😮😮

Jc