Thread: Puma 2.2 Provent 200 kit

Spotted this on an 'installs' page of an online vendor's site (who sells the chinese provent knockoffs).
Looks like some muppet has used cable conduit and glue lined heat shrink to make the connections on his install.

The covers over the shock turrets were already removed to clear the aftermarket turrets. Guard is still in place just trimmed back a little to allow the catch can to sit a little lower, drain hose is run down the shock turret, makes it easily accessible, not that it has ever had anything in it in the 10k km since fitting

Originally Posted by Baytown

Hi Beery.
My VW Transporter van has an air filter restriction gauge fitted.
I noted the Defender unit on their web site.
You think it's worth looking into, as if I don't need to take my airfilter out for inspection as much, the better!
Ken

I think they're a good idea. Especially with the awful filter box design in the Pumas where you get crap all over the clean side of the filter while trying to wriggle the lid in and out of place.

Just that little mechanical gauge is all you need.

Are the professionals amongst us on here of the opinion that a puma motor needs an extra oil separator?
The standard separator built in to the rocker cover is already pretty sizeable (i.e. the full length of the rocker cover) so would imagine it does a pretty good job.

From the workshop manual again:

"POSITIVE CRANKCASE VENTILATION
The PCV system consists of an oil separator, a PCV valve and a breather hose. The oil separator and the PCV valve are
integrated into the RH (right-hand) side of the camshaft cover. The breather hose connects the camshaft cover to the
turbocharger inlet duct."


Camshaft Cover

Item/Description:
1 - Oil Filler Cap
2 - Oil Separator
3 - Ventilation Outlet
4 - PCV Valve

"When the engine is running, the depression in the turbocharger inlet duct draws in gases from the engine sump through
the oil separator, PCV valve and breather hose. Any oil in the gases is removed by the oil separator and drains back into
the oil pan through the drain channels in the cylinder head and cylinder block. The PCV valve prevents reverse flow into
the camshaft cover when there is minimal depression in the turbocharger inlet duct."


This one drains straight back into the sump and doesn't need any plumbing.

That's very interesting.The standard system does exactly what a provent does without the external outlet. Komaterpillar said he got bugger all out of his provent in the 10000klm's he's had it fitted,so maybe on a puma it's not necessary. It'd be interesting to see what other puma owners with an oil separator have to say. Is it a serviceable item?

The above ties in with what I was reading this morning:

https://www.shophemi.com/images/medi..._ccv_bible.pdf

As per the pdf doc, Blow-by gases contain:
1. Carbon monoxide (a combustion by-product)
2. NOx (more combustion by-products)
3. Oxygen (not as much as clean air)
4. Nitrogen (again, not as much as clean air)
5. Oil droplets ? most of which are very small (<5 micron droplet diameter)
6. Raw fuel (that blew by during compression before combustion occurred)
none of the above are ideal to be re-introduced into the intake air.

All other things equal, diesel engines have higher compression, and as a result higher blow by than an equivalent displacement petrol engine. I think, in a perfect world, oil collected from the CCV system which is contaminated with diesel (and other contaminants) would ideally be removed from the engine, rather than re-introduced.
If we were to take the 'bugger the environment, I want engine longevity' standpoint, then maybe the factory oil seperator and drainback could be changed in some way?

I also thought it interesting to read about the 'foul air' condition that can occur when the PCV Valve closes under times of high load and leads to a reverse flow thru the PCV system.

Wondering whether the crankcase ventilation system in the 2.2 includes a makeup air line- this supplements the crankcse air leaving thru the ventilation line. It stands to reason that air 'leaving' must be replaced by air going into the system. I can't recall seeing / reading anything like this on the engine...

[quote=Toxic_Avenger;2631089]

As per the pdf doc, Blow-by gases contain:
1. Carbon monoxide (a combustion by-product)
2. NOx (more combustion by-products)
3. Oxygen (not as much as clean air)
4. Nitrogen (again, not as much as clean air)
5. Oil droplets ? most of which are very small (<5 micron droplet diameter)
6. Raw fuel (that blew by during compression before combustion occurred)
none of the above are ideal to be re-introduced into the intake air.

Really? You don't want any oxygen or nitrogen going through the Air Intake?

I think, in a perfect world, oil collected from the CCV system which is contaminated with diesel (and other contaminants) would ideally be removed from the engine, rather than re-introduced.

The same then goes for ALL of the oil in your sump. You also would find yourself topping up the oil every couple of thousand KM.
I think you'd find that a lot of the diesel vapour in the blowby(we're talking tiny amounts here) would be too light to be separated out and travel straight through the separator.

I also thought it interesting to read about the 'foul air' condition that can occur when the PCV Valve closes under times of high load and leads to a reverse flow thru the PCV system.

I can't see how that's even possible. High engine load means more blowby pressure and lower turbo intake pressure. The PCV Valve is there specifically to stop reverse flow by closing.

Wondering whether the crankcase ventilation system in the 2.2 includes a makeup air line- this supplements the crankcse air leaving thru the ventilation line. It stands to reason that air 'leaving' must be replaced by air going into the system. I can't recall seeing / reading anything like this on the engine...

The "makeup" is the gas pushing past the piston rings. That is the "air going into the system".

Might have been a bit of a sweeping statement saying 'none of the above'.

On my other car, a nissan 300zx, the PCV valve (2 off) are tapped straight into the intake manifold plenum, after (downstream of) the turbos and throttle bodies. Under boost, the PCV's will be closed, as the pressure of the boost in the intake manifold will close the valve to prevent a boost leak. But this is also the time where you'd expect higher amounts of blow-by. For blow-by to find its way back into the intake side, the blow-by pressure would need to be higher than the boost pressure. In these instances, the mighty VG30DETT engine will often pop a dipstick or find another way to bleed off excess blow-by as the normal route is unavailable.
TLDR, I think this is what the author of the article above was referencing re foul air condition, but on further look, does not appear to be applicable to our engines, as reintroduction of blow-by to the intake side happens upstream of the turbocharger.

RE Diesel in oil, this is best remedied with frequency of oil change (simple fixes first). Extreme cases of blow by would necessitate more frequent oil changes.