Thread: Rust Protection

I'm going with Lanolin only coz its cheap and easy to get here. Next time i wash it i'll give it ago see how long it takes before it needs redoing. And i guess to be on the safe side everytime before and after a beach trip.

There are two problems with lanolin. One your car smells like sheep (I wont make any kiwi jokes). Two when you go on the beach the sand sticks all over it like a fat kid on a smarty when I return from beach trips I usually go to car lovers and give it a good going over but its very difficult to remove the sand and after about 6 or 7 car washes with a high pressure hose the lanolin starts to wear off so I give it another spray like I said in previous post around every 6 months just a bit of a touch up.

Originally Posted by Scallops

Electronic protection is bogus on something that is not submerged in water -eg. your vehicle - lanotec, fish oil - any spray on stuff is as good as anything. Some places can spray a black tar stuff on - I had this done to mine - needs a touch up each year.

Look... I'm not going to say that the electronic type works. However the submerged in water bit isn't quite right. You are confusing [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathodic_protection"]cathodic protection[/ame] with capacitive protection. The later doesn't require the body to be immersed in water whereas the former does. All the ERPS work in the latter fashion.

My Father was a corrosion chemist. Unfortunately he wasn't around to ask when we were considering it. So, I phoned a friend in the corrosion association who had done some limited testing of these devices.

He said that he was surprised at how they worked and the voltages involved, and explained the theoretical basis for how they are supposed to work. He said that he thought that they "might work".

I did some more digging and got some pretty positive anecdotal reviews on them. Due to the low cost we decided to give one a go.

We've been to the beach many times with our car, and at our last dealer service where they did the corrosion inspection they could see no evidence of rust. We got MR to check as well and they said there was no evidence that the car had even been to the beach. Unlike many defenders even all the bolts are still shiny.

We do all the other good things like very thorough washing after beach trips, and I usually put some form of oil on the underside of the car before heading up there. Our car is still reasonably new, but so far so good - touch wood

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Look... I'm not going to say that the electronic type works. However the submerged in water bit isn't quite right. You are confusing cathodic protection with capacitive protection. The later doesn't require the body to be immersed in water whereas the former does. All the ERPS work in the latter fashion.

My Father was a corrosion chemist. Unfortunately he wasn't around to ask when we were considering it. So, I phoned a friend in the corrosion association who had done some limited testing of these devices.

He said that he was surprised at how they worked and the voltages involved, and explained the theoretical basis for how they are supposed to work. He said that he thought that they "might work".

I did some more digging and got some pretty positive anecdotal reviews on them. Due to the low cost we decided to give one a go.

We've been to the beach many times with our car, and at our last dealer service where they did the corrosion inspection they could see no evidence of rust. We got MR to check as well and they said there was no evidence that the car had even been to the beach. Unlike many defenders even all the bolts are still shiny.

We do all the other good things like very thorough washing after beach trips, and I usually put some form of oil on the underside of the car before heading up there. Our car is still reasonably new, but so far so good - touch wood

Hello Capt. - I stand corrected on the getting the 2 methods confused - quite right. But I still see the "capacitive protection" concept as less than convincing The only real references I can find to these systems are from the producers of such devices, like this one...

CounterAct Electronic Rust Protection System - Corrosion Control

Be that as it may, allow me to make a few observations (and remember, I'm a Geophysicist, not a chemist!) ...

From what I can gather, it is supposed to work like this - An electric current is applied to the metal object to be protected - in this case, our vehicles, by treating the metal object as the negative plate of a capacitor. This is achieved by a capacitive coupling between the metal object, a dielectric material and a positive plate. Pulses of direct current are provided to the positive plate. The vehicle acts as a common ground with the means for providing the pulses coming from it's battery.

If this is exactly how it works, then there is no net DC current generated - that is the nature of an insulator. Therefore, during the pulse, there would be protection, but during the absense of the pulse, the bias is opposite. At best, this would cancel the effect of the pulse phase,; at worst, it might even be sufficent to cause corrosion beyond that driven by oxidation differentials in the metal - actually encouraging rust!


I'd use lanolin!

Originally Posted by Scallops

Hello Capt. - I stand corrected on the getting the 2 methods confused - quite right. But I still see the "capacitive protection" concept as less than convincing The only real references I can find to these systems are from the producers of such devices, like this one...

CounterAct Electronic Rust Protection System - Corrosion Control

Be that as it may, allow me to make a few observations (and remember, I'm a Geophysicist, not a chemist!) ...

From what I can gather, it is supposed to work like this - An electric current is applied to the metal object to be protected - in this case, our vehicles, by treating the metal object as the negative plate of a capacitor. This is achieved by a capacitive coupling between the metal object, a dielectric material and a positive plate. Pulses of direct current are provided to the positive plate. The vehicle acts as a common ground with the means for providing the pulses coming from it's battery.

If this is exactly how it works, then there is no net DC current generated - that is the nature of an insulator. Therefore, during the pulse, there would be protection, but during the absense of the pulse, the bias is opposite. At best, this would cancel the effect of the pulse phase,; at worst, it might even be sufficent to cause corrosion beyond that driven by oxidation differentials in the metal - actually encouraging rust!


I'd use lanolin!

Like I said.. I'm not so sure about it. It's actually AC, and the voltages are quite high.

I think anyone who bought one of those and then forgot about the rest of the techniques would be asking for trouble. However, as part of a strategy I'm happy with it. I think I paid about $400 for mine. I also paid $300 to have the thing rust proofed, and most of that has worn or fallen off so I don't think its that that expensive.

We're about to go to fraser and as mentioned above I've just bought 5 litres of lanolin and will hit the underside this weekend.

One of the stories that impressed me - a friends family owns half of hamilton island. They had 3 similar vehicles - all with similar preparation. One had an ERPS on it. It lasted 2 years longer than any of the other vehicles. Whats more, when they got a new vehicle they took the ERPS off the old vehicle and put it on the new one. Within 6 months the old one was no longer serviceable. Interesting - hey?

Nothing wrong with rust

we all know what you get when you mix rust and aluminum, just add a tungsten fuse LOL

Originally Posted by scott oz

Hope this isn’t digressing the thread but since it seems to be a general rust question.

I recall reading that the bulkhead of the defenders is a double skin which is difficult to treat? One solution was to drill a hole in the outer engine bay skin and then spray a fish oil / anti rust product inside. I seem to recall that one suggestion was to fill it with oil and let it “seep” out.

Anyone ever heard of this or done it? OR does my memory fail me. (wouldn’t be the first time)

My understanding was coming from LR country where there is more salt on the roads than there is in the sea, you drill a pilot hole in the door post from the backside, and fill it with a quality anti-corrosion product such as waxoyl or wurths these are designer oils and so do not just coat like fish oil they have overlap technology built into them, cap the pilot hole with a grommet .
For example should you have two tightly fitting plates waxoyl or wurths anti-corrosion products will not only cover the surface but find its way into a seam and penetrate 10-15 mm either side on the untreated side.
I am going to do this to my replacement bulkhead (next job) also my new doors when they come.

Originally Posted by lardy

My understanding was coming from LR country where there is more salt on the roads than there is in the sea, you drill a pilot hole in the door post from the backside, and fill it with a quality anti-corrosion product such as waxoyl or wurths these are designer oils and so do not just coat like fish oil they have overlap technology built into them, cap the pilot hole with a grommet .
For example should you have two tightly fitting plates waxoyl or wurths anti-corrosion products will not only cover the surface but find its way into a seam and penetrate 10-15 mm either side on the untreated side.
I am going to do this to my replacement bulkhead (next job) also my new doors when they come.

Exactly. The stuff works and works well. On the same vehicle where I have missed getting in with the Dinitrol (just a brand of waxoyl type stuff) there is clearly more surface rust. Even those bits that I had done previously and that had been scraped clean for some reason are still provided with protection because the stuff is self healing for the reason that Lardy pointed out. Once it has formed a barrier or crust it loses any residual stickiness unless it is scraped or scratched off.

The only stuff that I would think that might be better is Penetrol. There's fact sheet here. Normally you mix the stuff with primer and/or top coat so rather than a protective membrane over the top of the surface, this stuff needs to be applied when it is painted.

Alan