Thread: EV general discussion

Originally Posted by Homestar

Many non hybrid cars including the standard RAV4 (and I think most of Toyotas offerings) and I think some of Hyundai offerings use the Atkinson cycle engine as well so compared to a standard non hybrid unit how do they differ? There is nothing new in the tech and this was done back in 2016 I think.

A non-hybrid vehicle with an Atkinson Cycle engine would probably suffer some loss of performance in some circumstances.

So the answer to the question of how they differ is that the hybrid version eliminates that loss of performance.

Originally Posted by vnx205

A non-hybrid vehicle with an Atkinson Cycle engine would probably suffer some loss of performance in some circumstances.

So the answer to the question of how they differ is that the hybrid version eliminates that loss of performance.

Not saying you’re wrong, but the engine is standard across lots of models now so hard to see how much different it would be on the highway at 100KPH than a Hybrid version? That’s all I’m trying to get my head around. 2 identical engines doing the same thing on highway, when the battery and motor in the hybrid aren’t doing anything.

Originally Posted by vnx205

I would expect that a RAV would suffer a greater reduction in the benefit on the highway because it is less aerodynamic than a Camry, so suffers more at higher speeds.

A mate has a six month old RAV hybrid,and it also gets in the 5 L/100 area on a run.

One of my Brothers has the latest Hybrid Camry,it’s economy is worse than yours but in the NT the speeds are higher as well.Generally 6 to 7L /100.
Still way better than his Prado,although it is usually loaded and often pulling the camper.

Originally Posted by Homestar

2 identical engines doing the same thing on highway, when the battery and motor in the hybrid aren’t doing anything.

But they are not identical engines - the petrol Camry engine in the non hybrid is an otto cycle engine and the engine in the hybrid is a atkinson cycle engine - same for other hybrids.

Google is your friend.

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

So, "it will be required to be turned over" after 5 years? What's happening to the car then? Just shot into space?

The indications from the US is that most Tesla batteries at ten years have over 85% capacity still remaining. There will be a point that they won't be viable for sure, but it's probably going to be of similar age to most similar cars. We believe the new LFP batteries being used now should have less degradation.

And when that time comes, lithium batteries are in excess of 90% recyclable. So it's going to go around again.

FYI Teslas are far far less than 160k now. In fact, you'd get two of them for the price of a fairly poverty Land Rover.

Tesla slashes prices of best selling Model Y and Model 3 to lowest ever level

And seeing you're opposed to cleaner air in cities, and less people dying of pollution related deaths, won't you think of Australias fuel security? Or we love that Russian Oil?

I've said before and I'll say again.. if you really want to throw something at EV's that should stick it's the whole Jevons paradox stuff. Everytime you make something cheaper you use it more.. that's what humans do.

I find it hilarious that people can't deal with EV's. They are just cars with a different type of propulsion. They are still cars. They are probably a little bit better for the environment than an equivalent, but they're still a car. All car trips have consequence.

Jevons paradox - Wikipedia

Bit straw man ish! But ok.

I wouldn’t look at a baby Tesla for starters as it’s completely unsuitable both size and range. So back to the expensive one it would be.

Explain security? We don’t produce cars! We don’t (on volume) produce batteries, and we don’t have all the components (we import). So oil or EV we’re stuffed.

Again, sure a nice clean city is a nice dream. Less exhaust and all that. It’s the fact that all we are doing is moving that material elsewhere. When a 785 dumps 100l of exhaust emissions into the Pilbara air it is still circulating the same Blue ball. It’s just concentrated somewhere else until it dissipates and is “everywhere”.

I’m not anti-tech by any stretch.

I’m anti-bull**** and this EV phenomenon in its CURRENT form is BS of the highest order.

Less people in your city may experience less side effects, people elsewhere are experiencing more to make your part of the planet a little nicer.

We cannot achieve the proposed targets - it’s a monumental increase in mining alone to produce the elements required to meet projected demand. And it’s not done using non-emitting technology.

I’ve seen several older Teslas in recent times and let’s just say they don’t hold up quite as well as other more experienced car builders vehicles do from a quality/fit/finish perspective. And will be moved on quite soon after their lease ends!

I’m fortunate to have some very good access to emissions data and it’s Green washing at the moment.

Some reading of peer reviewed technical articles shows that currently recycling of battery assemblies is almost non-existent.

The manual requirements provide significant risk to workers, are costly and time consuming (non-economic) whilst acknowledging that the recovery of these items is critical to the balancing of EV environmental issues.

If, and it’s a big if, they can get it economical and environmentally effective (recovered energy >= recovery energy) then we may be onto something - and there’s a significant focus on this.


The JD Power “90%” quoted is potential, it’s not at scale nor even remotely economical at this point - and some initiatives are “up cycling” with no longer fit for purpose units simple pushed onto a consumer market for Aux house power back ups. At some point it still needs to become recycled.

this may be interesting- Evolution is required


"Toyota says it has made a technological breakthrough that will allow it to halve the weight, size and cost of batteries, in what could herald a major advance for electric vehicles.
The world’s second largest carmaker was already pursuing a plan to roll out cars with advanced solid-state batteries, which offer benefits compared with liquid-based batteries, by 2025.

On Tuesday, the Japanese company said it had simplified production of the material used to make them, hailing the discovery as a significant leap forward that could dramatically cut charging times and increase driving range.

"

On Farms and agriculture. I wonder if the changes may be a bit faster than many of us suspect. Not sure of course as we all need food

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

On Farms and agriculture. I wonder if the changes may be a bit faster than many of us suspect. Not sure of course as we all need food

I can’t see it if the world continues the need to eat unfortunately. let’s look at a large broad acre operation. During harvest they will run say 6 x Headers - 700Hp each 24/7 - up to 200KM from the farm, then the 4 or 5 x 500HP plus tractors to keep up with them and then the fleet of trucks to haul that to the grain bins over the next 3 months plus the truck support for the 30,000 plus litres of diesel A DAY they require to run this operation. Oh, and the farm has a 100 amp single phase supply that’s run from what looks like a bit of wet string. That’s one farm and then think there are hundreds of them just in one state/province depending on the country you’re in.

I’m all ears on how this goes electric.

Diesel will be around longer than I’ll be alive - not sure when it will run out but I’m guessing we’ll all be screwed when that happens unless someone invents a Mr Fusion in the meantime.